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Tokyo 2020 Olympics Speedmasters

WatchWalker
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The first (blue) Snoopy came out in 2003, the silver Snoopy came in 2015. The silver Snoopy listed at $6K and limited to 1970 pieces got sold out instantly, peaked to $20K straight after the introduction, dropped back to $9K and today is back at $20K and more. All this in 3 years time. The original Snoopy was produced in 5441 pcs,, not sure what the list price was in 2003 (guess something like $2,5K?) but moved during last 3 years also up in price from $5K to current $12K. I have heard no one complain that Omega was copying their own Snoopy concept. They may as well do it again next year with the 50th anniversary. And to comment on all negative comments with regards to the Tokyo 2020 editions, where is the problem? Buying a watch mainly as investment is a personal risk and it's not Omega's mission to take care of that. If you like the genuine Gemini 4, still the most beautiful blue dial version imho, go out and scout a used one for $10K. You prefer a new one, like I do, go for the Tokyo blue for $6K. Or don't buy anything at all. The choice is yours. You like the new editions, buy them. You don't like them, don't buy them.
 
sgrossma
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M meishicard
Acceptable to whom in what sense ?
I suppose it isn't difficult to imagine yourself being a speedmaster fan situated in Tokyo back then, which I was (and still am), seeing the Mitsukoshi LE limited to 300 the year before and then the Apollo IX 35th LE limited to 3500. If one thinks such release is acceptable, then the Olympic LE should be acceptable. If one thinks that's unacceptable, then why haven't they walked away from Omega when they got to know about such re-release in just a year ? Why is there all of this fuss with the Olympic LEs, as though Omega has suddenly crossed a new line ?

Anyhow, here are some serious photos:

http://www.thebeatandbezel.com/omeg...-tokyo-2020-limited-edition-watches-hands-on/
OMG I need that red bezel one, like, yesterday. Seriously.
 
WatchWalker
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746
M meishicard
Acceptable to whom in what sense ?
I suppose it isn't difficult to imagine yourself being a speedmaster fan situated in Tokyo back then, which I was (and still am), seeing the Mitsukoshi LE limited to 300 the year before and then the Apollo IX 35th LE limited to 3500. If one thinks such release is acceptable, then the Olympic LE should be acceptable. If one thinks that's unacceptable, then why haven't they walked away from Omega when they got to know about such re-release in just a year ? Why is there all of this fuss with the Olympic LEs, as though Omega has suddenly crossed a new line ?

Anyhow, here are some serious photos:

http://www.thebeatandbezel.com/omeg...-tokyo-2020-limited-edition-watches-hands-on/
Wow, great pictures! Are these fitted with the OE straps that were included in the box of 5?
 
Archer
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BlackTalon BlackTalon
I am curious what some feel would fall under the category of being 'creative'. It's a Speedy Pro, so by definition three registers. Case size is fixed as well (except can be with and without crown guards). That basically leaves with you color options for the dial, and going panda/ reverse panda. And/ or play with bezel colors, hesalite vs sapphire, and maybe make some with precious metals. What the heck else can you do other then that and still have a Speedy Pro?

Well, size is not limited to with and without crown guards - we already have larger Speedy Pros that are 44mm plus...this example shows that, plus "what else" can be done with a Speedy Pro...

Speedmaster Moonwatch Professional Moonphase Chronograph 44.25 mm 311.33.44.32.01.001

It also has a moon phase and date. The new watch released at Basel has a skeletonized dial, and a modified movement that has many parts that look like the surface of the moon. It also has a larger case (going from memory on that though) and the case was ceramic. To me that's more creative then recycling some old LE colour schemes, but people do see things differently I suppose.

Cheers, Al
 
rominvicta
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404
M meishicard
Acceptable to whom in what sense ?
I suppose it isn't difficult to imagine yourself being a speedmaster fan situated in Tokyo back then, which I was (and still am), seeing the Mitsukoshi LE limited to 300 the year before and then the Apollo IX 35th LE limited to 3500. If one thinks such release is acceptable, then the Olympic LE should be acceptable. If one thinks that's unacceptable, then why haven't they walked away from Omega when they got to know about such re-release in just a year ? Why is there all of this fuss with the Olympic LEs, as though Omega has suddenly crossed a new line ?

Anyhow, here are some serious photos:

http://www.thebeatandbezel.com/omeg...-tokyo-2020-limited-edition-watches-hands-on/
It is getting a bit theological isn’t it? I pondered carefully what to say but seamingly each of us has an opinion on the subject. Let us not attack each other and expect a liitle bit more from Omega, rather than accepting readily close to a copycat product of theirs as a credible ingenuity.
 
rominvicta
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WatchWalker WatchWalker
The first (blue) Snoopy came out in 2003, the silver Snoopy came in 2015. The silver Snoopy listed at $6K and limited to 1970 pieces got sold out instantly, peaked to $20K straight after the introduction, dropped back to $9K and today is back at $20K and more. All this in 3 years time. The original Snoopy was produced in 5441 pcs,, not sure what the list price was in 2003 (guess something like $2,5K?) but moved during last 3 years also up in price from $5K to current $12K. I have heard no one complain that Omega was copying their own Snoopy concept. They may as well do it again next year with the 50th anniversary. And to comment on all negative comments with regards to the Tokyo 2020 editions, where is the problem? Buying a watch mainly as investment is a personal risk and it's not Omega's mission to take care of that. If you like the genuine Gemini 4, still the most beautiful blue dial version imho, go out and scout a used one for $10K. You prefer a new one, like I do, go for the Tokyo blue for $6K. Or don't buy anything at all. The choice is yours. You like the new editions, buy them. You don't like them, don't buy them.
Surely you’ve seen both, right? I do not see many similarities design wise between Snoopy and Silver Snoopy? But that i may assume is a personal perspective. As to your statement that it was not a mission of Omega to take care of the investment value of their products, how shall i say it in a more delicate manner? Shall i say then that here lies the difference between short term profit oriented brands and those that care about their future? Many examples on the market, most representative of course being Rolex.
 
BlackTalon
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Archer Archer
Well, size is not limited to with and without crown guards - we already have larger Speedy Pros that are 44mm plus...this example shows that, plus "what else" can be done with a Speedy Pro...

Speedmaster Moonwatch Professional Moonphase Chronograph 44.25 mm 311.33.44.32.01.001

It also has a moon phase and date. The new watch released at Basel has a skeletonized dial, and a modified movement that has many parts that look like the surface of the moon. It also has a larger case (going from memory on that though) and the case was ceramic. To me that's more creative then recycling some old LE colour schemes, but people do see things differently I suppose.

Cheers, Al
Thank you for pointing that out to me. All of the 44 mm Speedys I have looked at before were automatics. So really they can go with bigger cases, as they will be fine w/ the Pro movements (just increase the border around the case perimeter?).

But Moonphases have been done, so maybe a different 4th complication for 'something new'? And hadn't they made a skeletonized Speedy a few years back as well? I still struggle to figure out how they can make something that hasn't been done before, or does not evoke something that has been done before.

I also struggle to understand why it is back to make a new watch that reflects on a limited run of one from over a decade ago that people really want. Why not make a newer version to give people the same general look if that is what they are after? It will not replace that previous limited edition, and will do little to diminish the desire for collectors to own the vintage one.
 
Archer
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BlackTalon BlackTalon
Thank you for pointing that out to me. All of the 44 mm Speedys I have looked at before were automatics. So really they can go with bigger cases, as they will be fine w/ the Pro movements (just increase the border around the case perimeter?).

There's already a movement spacer, so making it larger is not a big deal. The 1861 movement itself is only 27 mm in diameter...12 lignes for the traditionalists. The case could go larger still, however at some point the sub-dials will look too crowded to the middle of the dial.

BlackTalon BlackTalon
But Moonphases have been done, so maybe a different 4th complication for 'something new'? And hadn't they made a skeletonized Speedy a few years back as well? I still struggle to figure out how they can make something that hasn't been done before, or does not evoke something that has been done before.

All I can say is that your initial post said the size had to be within very specific ranges (it doesn't), and that it had to have 3 registers (it doesn't), and the only thing they can really do is different dial colours (they can and have done much more as I've shown). So if you could not see how those things could be done when you made your post, I'm guessing there might be others things that you can't imagine that Omega could do.

BlackTalon BlackTalon
I also struggle to understand why it is back to make a new watch that reflects on a limited run of one from over a decade ago that people really want. Why not make a newer version to give people the same general look if that is what they are after? It will not replace that previous limited edition, and will do little to diminish the desire for collectors to own the vintage one.

I'm assuming you mean "bad" and not "back"? If so, I never said it was bad, just not terribly creative to recycle old ideas again - I personally don't care one way or another. I was simply pointing out that your specific constraints were not really constraints at all, and Omega had already been beyond what you said were the limits of what the design could do.

So did you predict the movement parts being made to look like the surface of the moon? If so, you did better than just about everyone else out there, including me. I never would have guessed that Omega would do something like that. It's something different and creative, and I give them credit for coming up with some new ideas, but YMMV.

Cheers, Al
 
BlackTalon
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Archer Archer
All I can say is that your initial post said the size had to be within very specific ranges (it doesn't), and that it had to have 3 registers (it doesn't), and the only thing they can really do is different dial colours (they can and have done much more as I've shown). So if you could not see how those things could be done when you made your post, I'm guessing there might be others things that you can't imagine that Omega could do.

Cheers, Al
Yes, as you point out there are clearly things that can be done and still remain a Speedmaster Pro that I did not realize. 😟 I did ask for examples, as several complaining did not introduce any; I appreciate you citing specific things that have been done.
 
M
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About the "creative" suggestions;
Omega may not have released certain designs as a product, but that doesn't mean they never came up with such ideas.
I am sure that there are many "professional" talented designers at Omega who have made sketches on just about every single seemingly realistic idea on speedmaster variants that have been suggested here. I suppose they do that all day.
I think its better to imagine the reasons why they haven't released such ideas as products, and the most probable answer would be that they judged that such product wouldn't be profitable enough, based on long experience and solid figures of past products that we consumers do not have access to. Simply put, they know much better than we do, what we customers really buy.

People who are interested in resale value would buy Rolex, not Omega. That was common sense well before the internet, and I think there is little point in suggesting that Omega should be like Rolex. People who are interested in avant-garde "creative" designs would buy and support one of those venture watch makers, not a giant like Omega. One of the most important aspect about Omega, is that it is a Swiss giant, but not Rolex.
 
rominvicta
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M meishicard
About the "creative" suggestions;
Omega may not have released certain designs as a product, but that doesn't mean they never came up with such ideas.
I am sure that there are many "professional" talented designers at Omega who have made sketches on just about every single seemingly realistic idea on speedmaster variants that have been suggested here. I suppose they do that all day.
I think its better to imagine the reasons why they haven't released such ideas as products, and the most probable answer would be that they judged that such product wouldn't be profitable enough, based on long experience and solid figures of past products that we consumers do not have access to. Simply put, they know much better than we do, what we customers really buy.

People who are interested in resale value would buy Rolex, not Omega. That was common sense well before the internet, and I think there is little point in suggesting that Omega should be like Rolex. People who are interested in avant-garde "creative" designs would buy and support one of those venture watch makers, not a giant like Omega. One of the most important aspect about Omega, is that it is a Swiss giant, but not Rolex.
Sometimes Omega is too creative and takes routes in different directions. So different that as you may read your post hereby above there is even no consensus between us why do we love it. At a glance your post is a bit puzzling as people would buy Rolex beacuse of the value, for creative designs some of the venture watch brands popped up recently and Omega because of being Swiss. Yes you are right, but as of my understanding we love and consequently buy Omega because of:
- being Swiss
- having a legacy
- interaction with Space which for current and previous generations will always be terra incognita
- having relaible in-house movements
- having overall good quality
- having reasonable pricing level
- reasonable level of retaining value after purchase
These are the reasons as a sum up. Everything as policy or actions of Omega that gets in conflict with above stated reasons for us loving the brand is/are mistake. You may exploit legacy, use historical designs to make numbers but if done cleverly that would improve you as a brand. Sorry for coming up again with Rolex. But it is a good example and comes for free. We don’t need a big investment to see that SkyD resembles design wise a lot both DJ and DD but in no way does it hurt the overall strenght and reputation of the brand. Just to the contrary. It adds up to it.
Edited:
 
speedyproftw
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I really like that Omega is again offering highly sought after Speedy designs with the blue and white pandas even if it does seem a bit "lazy". The Apollo and Gemini LEs will still be "unique" and since Omega is not offering these new watches as part of their standard inventory, I don't think they'll affect the value of the older LEs. I especially like the one with the red bezel, but I would absolutely love that one if it had a blue bezel and accents. Never satisfied!
 
M
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rominvicta rominvicta
Everything as policy or actions of Omega that gets in conflict with above stated reasons for us loving the brand is/are mistake. You may exploit legacy, use historical designs to make numbers but if done cleverly that would improve you as a brand. Sorry for coming up again with Rolex. But it is a good example and comes for free. We don’t need a big investment to see that SkyD resembles design wise a lot both DJ and DD but in no way does it hurt the overall strenght and reputation of the brand. Just to the contrary. It adds up to it.

I think it goes without saying, but I am not Omega's executive or anything.
Whether a certain move that Omega makes is a mistake or not, is not decided by anonymous and instantaneous comments posted on the web, but by Omega's board of directors, after figures are compiled. There are so many factors and strategies involved which account for evaluating a company's move that are not open to the public. Even if a certain product gets disliked by many on the web and accumulates dust in retailers, it doesn't necessarily mean that releasing the product was a failure for the company.
In turn, each of "us" consumers have the right to personally like or dislike a certain company, and to decide to buy or not to buy a certain product. "We" have the liberty of buying from any watch maker we like. So if one likes Rolex and concur to their values, why not simply buy Rolex instead of criticizing Omega for not being like Rolex ?
Business-wise, it is usually wise for a company to develop a different arena to that which is dominated by their rival; if the rival owns a market where customers are sensitive to resale value, then it may be better to develop a market which isn't, to exercise the liberty of not being restrained too much to maintain resale value when making products.
 
rominvicta
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M meishicard
I think it goes without saying, but I am not Omega's executive or anything.
Whether a certain move that Omega makes is a mistake or not, is not decided by anonymous and instantaneous comments posted on the web, but by Omega's board of directors, after figures are compiled. There are so many factors and strategies involved which account for evaluating a company's move that are not open to the public. Even if a certain product gets disliked by many on the web and accumulates dust in retailers, it doesn't necessarily mean that releasing the product was a failure for the company.
In turn, each of "us" consumers have the right to personally like or dislike a certain company, and to decide to buy or not to buy a certain product. "We" have the liberty of buying from any watch maker we like. So if one likes Rolex and concur to their values, why not simply buy Rolex instead of criticizing Omega for not being like Rolex ?
Business-wise, it is usually wise for a company to develop a different arena to that which is dominated by their rival; if the rival owns a market where customers are sensitive to resale value, then it may be better to develop a market which isn't, to exercise the liberty of not being restrained too much to maintain resale value when making products.
Peace brother! Getting emotional does not help. I am neither a Rolex employee nor from any governemental authority. Just a person that wears and collects a few brands one of which happen to be Omega. And when i deem something is wrong within the policy of a brand that i love i tend expressing my opinion. Surely i do not do any harm to the brand. And surely you are free to express yours. Just wanted to clarify it as you always tend to reply to any of my participations that my opinion is not objective, consequently i better keep it to myself. That is what you imply at least. Let us not entangle any more in that fruitless dispute.
 
dcomega
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Has anyone on the forum contacted a Japanese boutique to try and reserve in advance (deposit) one of the 2020 LE's prior to an in person pick up while visiting Japan on a future date? Or is it a 'first come first served... subject to availability situation' ?
 
david5807
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dcomega dcomega
Has anyone on the forum contacted a Japanese boutique to try and reserve in advance (deposit) one of the 2020 LE's prior to an in person pick up while visiting Japan on a future date? Or is it a 'first come first served... subject to availability situation' ?

I've tried and have been told by two boutiques that deposits can not be made over the phone but rather in person. When are you planning to visit Japan? I'm hoping to score one there during my trip in October.
Edited:
 
dcomega
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david5807 david5807
I've tried and have been told me two boutiques that deposits can not be made over the phone but rather in person. When are you planning to visit Japan? I'm hoping to score one there during my trip in October.

Thanks - I plan on being there late September, have not contacted a boutique yet.
 
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