Community Stories

Tissot Powermatic

A
Posts
16
Likes
8
Swatch/Omega/Tissot as a group are very secretive about the various ways silicon is used in their watches. Silly, as any watchmaker can take a watch apart and see the silicon components.
Instead of being secretive, Swatch should do what Patek does: brag endlessly about advanced movements that require far less service yet are far more reliable.

Google for "WatchTime Anti-Magnetic or Bust" for information about the partnership between Patek, Omega and Rolex that controls key patents on the use of silicon in watches. Patek brags about it endlessly on their website.

The evidence is clear that silicon is the "magic" behind the Powermatic movement. The Powermatic upgraded an ETA movement with a 40 hour reserve into one with an 80 hour reserve by replacing an heavy, high friction, high wear steel and ruby escapement with a low weight, zero friction, zero wear, zero lubrication silicon escapement.

Silicone (which people think of as a plastic) is constantly confused with SILICON, a natural substance that is much harder than steel.

A plastic escapement would wear rapidly and fail very quickly. The cost of a silicon escape wheel and pallet fork when a factory churns out 500,000 units per year is likely about a DIME each (not counting the hundreds of millions of dollars Patek, Rolex and Swatch have invested to get silicon components into mass production).

If a plastic escapements were possible cost just a penny, Swatch would be saving a few pennies per watch but spending millions of dollars in warranty repairs every year.
 
IMG_4571.png IMG_4572.jpeg
A
Posts
16
Likes
8
Nico Bandl in "Swiss Watches Magazine" shows dozens of silicon escape wheels and pallet forks on a single sheet of silicon ready to be assembled into a silicon escapement.

Because Rolex, Patek and Swatch partnered on the research and control the patents, you will NOT see silicon escapements in a Cartier watch, or a Breitling or a Grand Seiko.

Owners of those watches can brag "My watch is just like a watch from 1950..." Yup, and their escapements need to be cleaned and lubed every few years.
 
IMG_4576.jpeg IMG_4577.jpeg IMG_4578.jpeg
Canuck
Posts
14,093
Likes
40,524
I have seen both a Swatch Systems 51, and a Tissot Powermatic 80, both with what appeared to me to be the same escapement. If this material in this modern escapement is so superior to the materials used in traditional escapements, how is it that these modern escapements aren’t used by all watch manufacturers in all grades of their movements? A Patek with a similar escapement? Until I see one, I will have a difficulty believing such a thing exists. But as of now, I have only seen these escapements on disposable watches (Swatch, Tissot).
 
A
Posts
16
Likes
8
IMG_4579.jpeg

Zoomed in to closer to actual size. When "punched out" of the silicon wafer, the surfaces (teeth) on the escape wheels are far smoother than a steel escape wheel, anti-magnetic, friction free and they do not require lubrication. The silicon pallet forks are smoother than steel/ruby pallet fork, and friction free.
 
rob#1
Posts
1,980
Likes
3,339
Very interesting, especially as we have been living through the Silicon Age. As ‘More than 90% of the Earth's crust is composed of silicate materials, making silicon the second most abundant element in the Earth's crust (about 28% by mass) after oxygen’ are there any high quality watches that have movements that are manufactured using mostly silicon components?
 
A
Posts
16
Likes
8
Canuck Canuck
I have seen both a Swatch Systems 51, and a Tissot Powermatic 80, both with what appeared to me to be the same escapement. If this material in this modern escapement is so superior to the materials used in traditional escapements, how is it that these modern escapements aren’t used by all watch manufacturers in all grades of their movements? A Patek with a similar escapement? Until I see one, I will have a difficulty believing such a thing exists. But as of now, I have only seen these escapements on disposable watches (Swatch, Tissot).

You have seen a Tissot Swissmatic movement, which is a simple movement made by machines used in Tissot's lowest priced automatic watches. Internet dealers often sell Swissmatic modrls for between $200 and $300.

It is a single module, so if a Swissmatic fails, a new module is installed by Swatch USA for around $150.

The Powermatic 80 is a modern update of the ETA 2824-2, and it is used by Longines, Certina, Mido, Rado, Hamilton and Tissot under a variety of names in watches selling between $400 and $2,000 dollars.

Yes, someone at Tissot was asleep when it was decided to give their most advanced movement and their most basic movements VERY similar names.

You will not see silicon escapements on many watches. The Patek/Rolex/Swatch silicon researxh groups own key silicon patents and already have forced Baum & Mercier from selling a watch that was in violation.
 
IMG_4582.jpeg IMG_4583.jpeg IMG_4580.jpeg IMG_4581.jpeg
A
Posts
16
Likes
8
rob#1 rob#1
Very interesting, especially as we have been living through the Silicon Age. As ‘More than 90% of the Earth's crust is composed of silicate materials, making silicon the second most abundant element in the Earth's crust (about 28% by mass) after oxygen’ are there any high quality watches that have movements that are manufactured using mostly silicon components?

Silicon is very hard, but very brittle. So, it is fragile under lateral impact and lateral forces. The three functions it is ideal for are springs (anti-magnetic) escape wheels, and pallet forks where its brittleness is not a factor.
 
rob#1
Posts
1,980
Likes
3,339
Excellent, now I understand, thanks for your succinct answer.
 
A
Posts
16
Likes
8
Here is a good photo of the Patek Pulsomax escapement first released in 2008. Yes, the escape wheel and pallet fork LOOK similar to partd from a $2 toy.

But Patek is using them in watches that cost more than my car...not because they are cheaper to make than a steel and ruby escapement (and silicon might BE cheaper) but because they enable a Patek watch to run many years without the watch needed to be serviced, the reserve of the watch is greatly increased, and the watch is anti-magnetic.
 
IMG_4585.jpeg IMG_4587.png
Canuck
Posts
14,093
Likes
40,524
Well, if these escapements are the Cat’s A$$ as has been implied throughout this thread, I am rather surprised that the Swatch group and anyone else who owns a share of the patents, hasn’t gone 100% to them in all their lines! May be it is only a matter of time!
 
A
Posts
16
Likes
8
Canuck Canuck
Well, if these escapements are the Cat’s A$$ as has been implied throughout this thread, I am rather surprised that the Swatch group and anyone else who owns a share of the patents, hasn’t gone 100% to them in all their lines! May be it is only a matter of time!


Just a guess, but I think Rolex and Omega will continue to make their most expensive watches with traditional movements that have a steel and ruby escapement.

The allure of watches such as the Rolex Submariner, the Daytona and the Explorer, and the Omega "Moonwatch" is their close resemblance to the classic watches of the 1960's. If you can afford a Rolex, you can afford the $800 to have the escapement cleaned and lubed.

Patek sells to people who like to have a watch that few other people have. Their buddies with a Cartier or a Breitling can't brag about having a high tech escapement...those guys will brag about tradition...wearing a watch that is just like their father's watch and their grandfather's watch.

Tissot designs watches to appeal to men under age 30 who want an affordable Swiss watch that is "new...modern...and NOT a copy of their father's watch. The Powermatic silicon movement sets Tissot apart from the brands that target customers age 50 to 80...men who value century old designs.

And of course, it is likely that most people don't care what movement is in their watch...it can be tiny gerbils on a wheel if their watch keeps time.
 
TIMElyBehaviour
Posts
604
Likes
1,132
So far I have seen Mr chronoglide have an online cry about “plastic parts, many threads on most watch forums etc.

We went from the PRX being the flavour of the day to it being cheap because of the “plastic components”.

I own one which I’ll post a pic of in a sec. I’m with Archer on this one. There has been not a hint of issues with the movement whether it’s in the PRX or any other watch, the movement seems quite robust as I have given mine a knock or two. The other thing is mine is running at +5 secs and has been since I owned it.
From my perspective it’s a for the powermatic.

am I pissed that they slowed it down to get 80hrs? Nope and I appreciate it.

thinking about getting a 1938 time only, that’s how much I’m liking modern tissot at the moment. Great heritage pieces.


IMG_2236.jpeg
 
A
Posts
16
Likes
8
Wonderful looking watch. The Tissot PRX on your wrist is never available at the local Tissot store. The manager said your version of the PRX gets sold in a day. The shop sells Tissot, Certina, Mido, Rado...your watch is the one everyone wants.
 
TIMElyBehaviour
Posts
604
Likes
1,132
A AlanTexas
Wonderful looking watch. The Tissot PRX on your wrist is never available at the local Tissot store. The manager said your version of the PRX gets sold in a day. The shop sells Tissot, Certina, Mido, Rado...your watch is the one everyone wants.
I can imagine it’s a great watch. I guess the dark blue waffle dial is the most popular for the watch. But the ice blue is pretty cool too.
 
Archer
Posts
27,318
Likes
69,679
A AlanTexas
Silicon is a natural substance that is both harder and lighter than steel, anti-magnetic, friction free, and lubrication free. A silicon escapemen will perform well for ten years or more with zero service.

SILICON is NOT SILICONE ...a escapement made with a soft plastic-like silicone escape wheel and pallet fork would perform badly on Day One, and fail within a few weeks or months.

I think we all know that silcone is not silicon, but you seem confused about what the escapement material is on these watches. Having gone through all the technical documentation on the Powermatic movements on the Tissot Extranet, I've not seen any evidence that silicon is used in the escapement in any of the Powermatic variants.

Tissot describes the material as "synthetic" and if it actually was silicon, I'm quite sure they would say so:



As for being lubrication free, that is not the case for the escapement on the Powermatic 80 models. This outlines the cleaning and lubrication for the synthetic escapement:



The vast majority of the Powermatic 80 movements have no silicon at all. Most use traditional balance springs, or more recently the newer Nivachron balance spring, which uses a titanium based alloy.

The Powermatic 80 Silicium is the movement that uses silicon, and that is only on the balance spring:



In fact, it uses a traditional escapement as you can see here:



Hopefully this brings some clarity to the subject.

Cheers, Al
 
Canuck
Posts
14,093
Likes
40,524
Interesting! Some Tissots use escapements that look like plastic, while other Tissots use traditional escapement materials! Based on what I have read, I reluctantly admit that I might see some advantage to a silicon escapement. But if the Tissot Powermatic 80 is NOT a silicon escapement, then the doubt I expressed about this plastic looking escapement in my opening post, are still there.
 
Archer
Posts
27,318
Likes
69,679
Canuck Canuck
Interesting! Some Tissots use escapements that look like plastic, while other Tissots use traditional escapement materials! Based on what I have read, I reluctantly admit that I might see some advantage to a silicon escapement. But if the Tissot Powermatic 80 is NOT a silicon escapement, then the doubt I expressed about this plastic looking escapement in my opening post, are still there.

Your doubt is based on feelings, not evidence.
 
Canuck
Posts
14,093
Likes
40,524
How is it if the modern type escapement is superior, the watch is still being produced with steel escape wheel and jewelled pallets, as well?
 
Archer
Posts
27,318
Likes
69,679
Canuck Canuck
How is it if the modern type escapement is superior, the watch is still being produced with steel escape wheel and jewelled pallets, as well?

First off, no one but the guy who thinks it’s silicon has said that it’s “superior” so that is a complete straw man. Again, there’s no evidence that this is some horological crime worthy of discounting Tissot completely as a brand, as you have suggested. There’s no evidence that these escapements are in any way problematic. No amount of yelling at clouds is going to change that.

The movement it’s based on is the 2824-2, so I would assume they have some models of the new movement that still have that technology. It’s probably because people believe that somehow the new escapement is inferior, such as yourself...
 
Deafboy
Posts
2,277
Likes
6,535
Archer Archer
Hopefully this brings some clarity to the subject.
Thanks for the clarification, Al.
 
5 More Posts...
Sign up or log in to reply...

Similar threads

robinhook

[Price Reduction] TISSOT PRX POWERMATIC 80 35MM with BLUE Dial Ref. T137.207.11.041.00

robinhook Private Watch Sales
robinhook
robinhook
Posts
6
Views
6K
Madjam1966

Tissot Powermatic 80

Madjam1966 Other Watch Brands Forum
K
killer67
Posts
6
Views
5K
Wryfox

Tissot Powermatic 80 devolving before my eyes...

Wryfox Other Watch Brands Forum
ama98
ama98
Posts
5
Views
2K
GordanDaniel

Jaeger Lecoultre - Powermatic - 18K Rose gold

GordanDaniel High-end Watches
gatorcpa
gatorcpa
Posts
4
Views
2K
Jr86

Vintage Lecoultre Powermatic - bargain? Help

Jr86 High-end Watches
Jr86
Jr86
Posts
4
Views
2K
orlis

CERTINA DS-8 Lady Powermatic 80, 31.5mm bi-color, full set (price reduced!)

orlis Private Watch Sales
orlis
orlis
Posts
7
Views
3K