Tissot Powermatic

[Canuck]

I had occasion to perform a repair on a Tissot Powermatic 80, today. A good looking watch with an ETA calibre 07.111 movement which was new to me. Plastic escape wheel, plastic lever! The incongruity of it! The watch has a clear back, and the rotor on the movement was tarted up to impress the viewer. But plastic escapement components? Looks like I am going to have to get accustomed to such things. But my, how Tissot has changed over the years! Basically, a high priced Swatch mechanical watch! Oh, how the mighty have fallen!

 

[ghce]

The much abused 2824! Was at 28800 now advanced to 21600, had a nice adjustable micro regulator, now factory set silicone spring brimming with plastic components.

I remember a couple of years ago bemoaning this on the forum but was informed it was all an improvement, well the BS didn't stick with me.
Quite possibly the long term regulation may have been better but I am still not a fan.

 

[Archer]

Tissot made the Astrolon in the 70's, so a couple of plastic parts in this watch aren't anything particularly new...

By all accounts the Powermatics are very solid movements.

 

[Canuck]

I once saw a documentary discussing cars in Cuba. A mid-50s prestige auto with a Hyundai motor in it. That, to me, characterizes these Tissot Powermatic 80s movements. An otherwise venerable Swiss movement, with junk components to cheapen them! And I used to like Tissot.

 

[Duracuir1]

Canuck

I once saw a documentary discussing cars in Cuba. A mid-50s prestige auto with a Hyundai motor in it. That, to me, characterizes these Tissot Powermatic 80s movements. An otherwise venerable Swiss movement, with junk components to cheapen them! And I used to like Tissot.

So if you get a Tissot, do you Tossit in the trash?

Edited: Feb 13, 2024

 

[Canuck]

Duracuir1

So if you get a Tissot, you Tossit?

I have a couple Tissots……….made before Swatch Group got their hands on the brand.

 

[Duracuir1]

Canuck

I have a couple Tissots……….made before Swatch Group got their hands on the brand.

That bracelet looks good. How comfy is it? Your observation about the plastic movement is similar to mine when I see “Genuine Leather”. Genuine Crap is more like it.

 

[Canuck]

Duracuir1

That bracelet looks good. How comfy is it? Your observation about the plastic movement is similar to mine when I see “Genuine Leather”. Genuine Crap is more like it.

That is the most uncomfortable, stupidly designed, most difficult to manipulate of any bracelet I own! Thanks for asking.

 

[Fulton8or]

Archer

Tissot made the Astrolon in the 70's, so a couple of plastic parts in this watch aren't anything particularly new...

By all accounts the Powermatics are very solid movements.

Astrolon here

 

[Archer]

Fulton8or

Astrolon here

Nice! I always get a kick out of the “How dare Tissot start using plastic in these new watches!” outrage posts, when this beauty was made by them 50+ years ago...

 

[Fulton8or]

Archer

Nice! I always get a kick out of the “How dare Tissot start using plastic in these new watches!” outrage posts, when this beauty was made by them 50+ years ago...

Thanks! Pretty much NOS when it came in from Switzerland and it is a decent runner. Keyless works a tad wonky as it’s tough to set time and have the minute hand wind up where you want it.

 

[Canuck]

Archer

Nice! I always get a kick out of the “How dare Tissot start using plastic in these new watches!” outrage posts, when this beauty was made by them 50+ years ago...

Yes but!………… The prices on some Tissot watches (it was a very quick search) revealed some prices in the $1,000 range for a watch with plastic escapement components! Albeit, the movement in the Powermatic 80 is a better movement than the Swatch Sistem 51 movement, but still! The Swatch Sistem 51 watch sells for 1/4 to 1/3 of the price of the Tissot! How long will it be before the Sistem 51 movement from Swatch ends up in the Tissot line? I would not be surprised!

 

[Archer]

Canuck

Yes but!………… The prices on some Tissot watches (it was a very quick search) revealed some prices in the $1,000 range for a watch with plastic escapement components! Albeit, the movement in the Powermatic 80 is a better movement than the Swatch Sistem 51 movement, but still! The Swatch Sistem 51 watch sells for 1/4 to 1/3 of the price of the Tissot! How long will it be before the Sistem 51 movement from Swatch ends up in the Tissot line? I would not be surprised!

Is your considerable angst over this based on anything other than emotions?

If you have evidence that this escapement has not performed well, by all means provide it so we can all learn...

 

[hen]

Are plastic parts really that bad? Are the forces in a movement high enough to wear down the plastic part?

I saw the escapement in the powermatic and It had jewels and a steel(?) pinion as every other movement. Synthetic material are often better than metal in certain applications, being lighter, stronger, corrosion resistant and above all; cheaper to produce.

We often speak of good or bad quality, when we mean right or wrong quality. Synthetics may be the right quality in many applications. Rubber or silicon straps are an example we all know, does not smell or feel as good as leather but have many other superior qualitys. Ceramic are another example in watch making.

That said, I understand fully the scepticism, I too like metal, wood and leather better than synthetics. But that is a totally subjective feeling on my part. I must admit that I many times experienced plastic car or motorcycle parts that failed due to being of the wrong quality.

 

[Archer]

These movements have been around since 2013, and I have not heard even the slightest inkling that the escapement doesn’t perform well, or has any sort of longevity issues.

If there were problems, you would see it on forums, but all you see are multitudes of rant threads like this one, that decry the use of plastic with no evidence to support the claims that it is some sort of horological travesty.

 

[scapa]

I get the weirdness of plastic parts in metal movements, but having built and repaired (strictly as a hobby) high-end audio gear for a long time now, I've seen Delrin and other plasticky parts at some critical friction points for a long time now, and they have proven highly reliable and structurally sound. I've also owned a few PM80 movements and plastic-rich or not they perform well, meeting and even exceeding their specs in terms of PR and accuracy.

As a clinician, there's that pesky plastic in some sutures, valves and grafts, bone cement, tools and introduction/ extraction vehicles...

I have zero expertise in things horological, but I'd be interested to see how some of these parts might stand up in comparison to their metal or silicon counterparts in watches in the field.

 

[scapa]

I just picked up a PRX for a family member's bairn as a grad gift, so did a little reading. This is from a Hodinkee article (making to claims as to veracity but here it is):

The same "Powermatic 80" caliber, based on the ETA CO7.111, ticks inside the 35mm PRX, visible through a sapphire caseback. It has an 80-hour power reserve, modifying the standard ETA 2824 to beat at a slower 3 Hz. There's been some misconception that this movement is both not serviceable and contains "plastic" parts. In fact, the pallet fork and escape wheel are made of a synthetic material, found in this entry-level version of the Powermatic 80 movement.

As watchmaker @thatguy explained in the comments of our Week On The Wrist with the 40mm PRX, the composite used "creates less friction and less impact during the impulse and locking phase of the escapement. This is similar with [the] Silicium escapement system that tries to mitigate the friction in the normal steel vs. ruby jewel on the Swiss lever, avoiding the need to often lubricate and wear and tear in both pallet jewels and escape wheel teeth."

He further said these C07 movements are "highly serviceable." Tissot service fees tend to be quite reasonable, and Tissot is transparent about it: you can find a partial fee schedule on its website here. Sometimes the movement will simply be exchanged when sent in for service to speed up turnaround times, while the old movement is sent to Tissot in Switzerland for full servicing before being used again.

https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/the-tissot-prx-powermatic-80-now-finally-in-35mm

 

[AlanTexas]

Although Patek began using silicon escape wheels in 2005 and a silicon pallet fork in 2008 (no rubies needin the escapement), and was soon joined by Omega and Rolex in using silicon, folks remain confused about what silicon actually is.

Silicon is a natural substance that is both harder and lighter than steel, anti-magnetic, friction free, and lubrication free. A silicon escapemen will perform well for ten years or more with zero service.

SILICON is NOT SILICONE ...a escapement made with a soft plastic-like silicone escape wheel and pallet fork would perform badly on Day One, and fail within a few weeks or months.

 

[AlanTexas]

Silicon is being used by Patek, Rolex and Omega because it makes a movement MORE reliable and it reduces the need for service.

I have six watches with Powermatic movements. All of them are accurate within a -4/+5 seconds per 24 hour range (15 hours on wrist, 9 hours face up at night). Three are accurate within a -2/+2 second range.

So, I am getting COSC level "on wrist" accuracy from watches that have list prices of just $500 to $900 (and discontinued models are often available for much less).

My Powermatic watches are now out of their warranty period. If a movements ever fail, SWATCH USA will pop in a replacement movement and return the old movement to Swizerland for service. The current fee to replace the movement and replace the seals and test the watch for accuracy: $200 total.

How many service centers will clean, lubricate and regulate a traditional ETA movement, replace the seals and test a watch for $200?

When someone buys a Patek with a silicon escapement for $20,000, they are confident that Patek replaced steel and rubies with silicon to make a BETTER and more reliable watch. Yet, when people read that a silicon escapement has replaced steel and rubies in a $500 watch, they suspect that the watch has been "cheapened".

And...they are kinda, sorta right. Silicon escapements will greatly reduce the number of watches returned for warranty repairs. Cheaper warranty costs make it possible to sell an automatic watch for under $1,000 and still make a (modest) profit.

 

[Deafboy]

I'm a little confused here.
Does OP watch use silicone (ie. "plastic") or silicon (element in crystalline or polycrystalline lattice), or both?
Looking at internet sources it appears it has a silicon hairspring. No mention about the pallet fork or the escape wheel.

People also seem confused about the term silicium, which is the french word for silicon (not silicone!).

Michel