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The UG Aero & Dato Compax thread

yala
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bgrisso bgrisso
sure, I agree as a general rule of thumb, but it's the exceptions that get complicated.......

The outdoorsman above is 40s, what do you feel about that dial ?

I've seen other similar time period examples with Swiss Made, and the dials I find completely convincing.
your question is answered by my previous posting. Again: This is my personal rule of thumb - doesn‘t mean that it‘s right.
 
bgrisso
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Here's the same reference Outdoorsman with a "swiss" dial, sorry the condition is not great, but I believe the dial printing is completely identical aside from the Swiss and Swiss Made.
 
P1010063.JPG
martinc
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bgrisso bgrisso
sure, I agree as a general rule of thumb, but it's the exceptions that get complicated.......

The outdoorsman above is 40s, what do you feel about that dial ?

I've seen other similar time period examples with Swiss Made, and the dials I find completely convincing.


And have you seen any 40’s UG chrono with “Swiss made” which was original dial?
Apart from that - just look at the minute counter subdial - the size of the numbers, the font... that just does not seem right. And the hour numbers - namely 2, 4, 5 or 10. Thick and uneven printing...
It’s a nicely done redial IMHO.
 
bgrisso
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martinc martinc
And have you seen any 40’s UG chrono with “Swiss made” which was original dial?
Apart from that - just look at the minute counter subdial - the size of the numbers, the font... that just does not seem right. And the hour numbers - namely 2, 4, 5 or 10. Thick and uneven printing...
It’s a nicely done redial IMHO.

I used to think Swiss Made was absolute no for 40s, but then a while back I bought the example above that I posted, which I feel is completely original. And then after that I started to see more swiss made examples that I also feel are original, to the point where I accept it as potential, but rare, variation. I think I've seen perhaps 5-10 examples, but I can't recall offhand if there were a mix of time only and chronos, or just time only. (Sadly I did not compile all the photos when I came across them).

I once held two Aero 22290 in my hand, both completely original, which were about 200 serials apart, and the differences between them were shocking. Size and fonts on the hour markers, size on all the sub dial printing, size on the UG and Aero printing, etc. There were also significant differences in the cut on the case. I think all the various watch components were produced in batches, and those batches were not always assembled in predictable ways, according to serials.

It has made me cautious on any definitive statements without extensive research. For the philips example there are numerous questions. I have not seen this particular dial before. It could be a redial, it could also just be an uncommon example, and the same dial will pop up at some point.
 
martinc
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bgrisso bgrisso
I used to think Swiss Made was absolute no for 40s, but then a while back I bought the example above that I posted, which I feel is completely original. And then after that I started to see more swiss made examples that I also feel are original, to the point where I accept it as potential, but rare, variation. I think I've seen perhaps 5-10 examples, but I can't recall offhand if there were a mix of time only and chronos, or just time only. (Sadly I did not compile all the photos when I came across them).

I once held two Aero 22290 in my hand, both completely original, which were about 200 serials apart, and the differences between them were shocking. Size and fonts on the hour markers, size on all the sub dial printing, size on the UG and Aero printing, etc. There were also significant differences in the cut on the case. I think all the various watch components were produced in batches, and those batches were not always assembled in predictable ways, according to serials.

It has made me cautious on any definitive statements without extensive research. For the philips example there are numerous questions. I have not seen this particular dial before. It could be a redial, it could also just be an uncommon example, and the same dial will pop up at some point.


I have no experience whatsoever in time-only UGs. Regarding the chronos and calendars, I have never seen a "Swiss made" dial that would be 100% genuine (which means not much, actually... I haven´t seen so many UGs like many other forum members, you included, obviously).
Your Outdoorsman looks perfect, but to be honest, the "Swiss made" sign looks a bit strange and even seems to have a different radius/curvature than the rest of the dial. But as I say, I know nothing about these and would not dare judging it.

When you go through UG archive BW photos in Sala, there is not one single watch that has "Swiss made" on the dial. There is "Swiss", nothing at all (older dials) or "Fab. suisse". Obviously on many photos it´s not visible , but where it is visible, it´s like this.
On UG made Jaegers there tends to be "Fab. suisse" and on UG made GPs there tends to be "Swiss made".
I know about UG being famous for inconsistency and I know very well that almost no two dials are identical... but here - for the Philips Aero Compax 22477 I have almost no doubt that the dial is not original.
Btw. the minutes counter is off-center.
Not good.

UG_Aero_Philips_detail.png



Edit: I know of one exception to the Swiss made "rule" or 40s chronos - reference 22209 - a small Compax, where GP and UG share the ref. number and actually Swiss made appears on both UG and GP versions of the watch and all seem genuine.
Edited:
 
kanye_mouse
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since this has become somewhat of the "Aero Compax" thread, thought I'd drop in this one, up at Antiquorum this month: https://catalog.antiquorum.swiss/en/lots/universal-ref-22414-aero-compax-lot-329-12?page=1

12.jpg
 
Diabolik
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If you really want a non original Universal Geneve aero compax, that would be an excellent choice ...
 
jumpingsecond
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Diabolik Diabolik
If you really want a non original Universal Geneve aero compax, that would be an excellent choice ...
^This^
But at least they tell you in their notes:
Grading System
Grade: AA
Very good

Case: 3-8
Good

Slightly scratched

Movement: 3*
Good

Overhaul recommended, at buyer's expense

Dial: 3-8-53-01-05
Good

Slightly scratched

Reprinted

HANDS Original

HANDS Luminous material reapplied
 
martinc
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bgrisso bgrisso
Just saw this Swiss made dial on IG

Yeah, I saw it too... Nice watch. It´s a bit puzzling, the dial looks ok to my eye. 😀 Maybe similar to 22209 which is known for being marked "Swiss made"? This Compur is ref. 22208, so there might be some relationship.......
Anyway - that Philips Aero-Compax is a redial regardless of the Swiss marking. 😉
 
Andy_timeman
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An exceptional example.. round pusher variants in a different league in terms of rarity the flat pusher and that is one of nicest examples available..... it I could just make it grow by 3mm then perfect... 95+% of models sold are flat pusher with pushers so no real pricing guide. An awesome beauty....
 
Mark020
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Big gamble with these pics..
 
bgrisso
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Amazing how someone can post so many pics that tell so little
 
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