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ghce
·I have so got to get one of these with a golden dial with black sub dials in 18K, they are beyond gorgeous.
The rare and elusive Movado Datron HS 360 Subsea
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MMMD
·It looks like Skylab-4 commander Gerald Carr's Movado Datachron HS360 automatic chronograph was a 1970 version gifted to him by General Thomas Stafford (USAF General since November 1972) beforeSkylab trainng started... and we see Carr wearing the Datachron in 1971 NASA photographs.
Although the HS360 wasn't produced for long as the "Datachron" ( it soon became renamed "Datron" ) I wonder if anyone knows if the chronograph hand was original for the 1970 Datachron ?
Most Datachron I have seen have the long-triangular flat base chronograph hand 👎
.
.
📖 The HODINKEE article is here:
https://www.hodinkee.com/magazine/snuck-into-space
Here is my “Skylab Commander” Datachron Chronodiver:
The only advertisement I’ve seen for Datachrons is this one from the New Yorker (November 29, 1969). The Datachron was therefore available in 1969; this ad places the Datachron among the earliest examples of the El Primero.
I have seen more than one of these Datachron/Datron Chronodivers on a GF ladder bracelet dated first quarter of 1969 and stamped with the reference number (138 705 501) of its dive watch twin, the Super Sub Sea 300 Tempomatic. It appears that Movado sold some Chronodivers with surplus bracelets meant for the Tempomatic.
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pdxleaf
·...
I have seen more than one of these Datachron/Datron Chronodivers on a GF ladder bracelet dated first quarter of 1969 and stamped with the reference number (138 705 501) of its dive watch twin, the Super Sub Sea 300 Tempomatic. It appears that Movado sold some Chronodivers with surplus bracelets meant for the Tempomatic.
Maybe you can help me out.
I have the bracelet you desctibe but with a riveted dive extension. It appears OEM but I am not certain. I'd like to remove it but don't believe I can without damaging it. It doesn't appear to be made to remove.
Your explanation that the bracelet came with a dive watch makes sense, although I wasn't awate of the Tempomatic before. Does your Tempomatic have a dive extension?
Perhaps I have the super rare spacesuit prototype extension. 😉
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MMMD
·Maybe you can help me out.
I have the bracelet you desctibe but with a riveted dive extension. It appears OEM but I am not certain. I'd like to remove it but don't believe I can without damaging it. It doesn't appear to be made to remove.
Your explanation that the bracelet came with a dive watch makes sense, although I wasn't awate of the Tempomatic before. Does your Tempomatic have a dive extension?
Maybe you can help me out.
I have the bracelet you desctibe but with a riveted dive extension. It appears OEM but I am not certain. I'd like to remove it but don't believe I can without damaging it. It doesn't appear to be made to remove.
Your explanation that the bracelet came with a dive watch makes sense, although I wasn't awate of the Tempomatic before. Does your Tempomatic have a dive extension?
Yes, both bracelets have the dive extension, which is definitely not designed to be removed.
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Scarecrow Boat
·Maybe I need to create a new thread but I wanted to give this one a try as it has recently been active. This thread inspired me to learn more about this reference, which in turn I have now added this reference to my "gotta collect" list. I curiously began looking at all of the typical hunting grounds to familiarize myself with condition and general asking prices and I found this piece. It is advertised as being from '69 and looks to be overall good condition but the movement made me stop and deep dive into this forum and other sources to learn more. The piece in question has a Zenith branded rotor weight stating 31 jewels
From my understanding, Movado was sold to the North American market as Unadjusted and fewer (17) jewels for import reasons. The rotor weight should reflect this by the Movado branding and stated 17 jewels. After my deep dive, I came to the conclusion that this rotor weight was likely replaced with a Zenith one during service. The watch is currently located in Belgium and is sold by a dealer. When I asked abut the rotor weight, they claimed the movement was entirely original to the watch. With skepticism, considering they likely are not the original owner/purchaser of the piece from ~69, I come here wondering: is the Zenith branded rotor weight more likely a part replaced during service or is there any documentation showing early references possibly came 31 jewel Zenith movements? Here is the watch in question
From my understanding, Movado was sold to the North American market as Unadjusted and fewer (17) jewels for import reasons. The rotor weight should reflect this by the Movado branding and stated 17 jewels. After my deep dive, I came to the conclusion that this rotor weight was likely replaced with a Zenith one during service. The watch is currently located in Belgium and is sold by a dealer. When I asked abut the rotor weight, they claimed the movement was entirely original to the watch. With skepticism, considering they likely are not the original owner/purchaser of the piece from ~69, I come here wondering: is the Zenith branded rotor weight more likely a part replaced during service or is there any documentation showing early references possibly came 31 jewel Zenith movements? Here is the watch in question
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pdxleaf
·I have read ( but couldn't find) other threads with similar questions about cobranding. My takeaway is that many watches received mix branded components.
Also not a Movado expert, although I play one on the internet. If I was betting my own money I would be okay with a Zenith rotor.
Also not a Movado expert, although I play one on the internet. If I was betting my own money I would be okay with a Zenith rotor.
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Scarecrow Boat
·Hi Dave, thank you so much for responding and sharing this image. I appreciated being able to read this section. I have read several threads regarding the cobranding but from what I saw it was localized to the double signed dial: Movado Zenith. I think. I found two threads discussing the same question I have, but pertaining to the bezel-less version of this reference, and it was speculated the moved was swapped for Zenith during service. With all of the threads I had read through, the question I had seen pop up most was "is it 17j or 31j?" with the distinction that Movado should be 17j. If I interpreted what I read in those threads correctly, as well as the text above, it is plausible that early references may have come with 31j Zenith movements(?). To what you said above, I would also be okay with a Zenith branded rotor weight as it's rather at home on this movement. But I would also be very curious as to how original it is to understand the history of the piece more.
I wanted to ask though- looking through previously sold references along with all currently for sale, of all that included movement shots, they were all Movado branded except this one.
I wanted to ask though- looking through previously sold references along with all currently for sale, of all that included movement shots, they were all Movado branded except this one.
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Emeister
·the question I had seen pop up most was "is it 17j or 31j?" with the distinction that Movado should be 17j. If I interpreted what I read in those threads correctly, as well as the text above, it is plausible that early references may have come with 31j Zenith movements(?).
I don't have the watches with me right now but I'm pretty sure I have Movado Datron's with both 17J and 31J movements.
I had assumed Movado wasn't only sold in the USA so the 31J was a European / Rest of the World version.
I'll see if I can find any pictures.
Realise this is a bit different to your initial question.
Edit:
https://www.chrono24.com.au/movado/datron--id23610236.htm#gref
https://watches83.com/en/vintage-mo...tch-cal-3019-phc-panda-dial-spectacular-.html
Edited:
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Scarecrow Boat
·I don't have the watches with me right now but I'm pretty sure I have Movado Datron's with both 17J and 31J movements.
I had assumed Movado wasn't only sold in the USA so the 31J was a European / Rest of the World version.
I'll see if I can find any pictures.
Realise this is a bit different to your initial question.
Edit:
https://www.chrono24.com.au/movado/datron--id23610236.htm#gref
https://watches83.com/en/vintage-mo...tch-cal-3019-phc-panda-dial-spectacular-.html
https://archiv.henrys.de/index.php
The pieces are falling into place. I still have yet to find documentation showing Zenith branded movements were sold in Movados, and I am not entirely confident I will find that, but now knowing Movado's were sold as 31j movements, I can more easily accept a Zenith branded rotor weight under the hood of a Movado. I know it's an acceptable part to use considering these are El Primero's after all, but I would have been more put off with a mismatch of parts- 31j rotor weight on 17j movement.
Thank you all for your help and talking me through this! I really enjoy learning, so I appreciate all of your time 😀
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pdxleaf
·Maybe I need to create a new thread but I wanted to give this one a try as it has recently been active. This thread inspired me to learn more about this reference, which in turn I have now added this reference to my "gotta collect" list. I curiously began looking at all of the typical hunting grounds to familiarize myself with condition and general asking prices and I found this piece. It is advertised as being from '69 and looks to be overall good condition but the movement made me stop and deep dive into this forum and other sources to learn more. The piece in question has a Zenith branded rotor weight stating 31 jewels
From my understanding, Movado was sold to the North American market as Unadjusted and fewer (17) jewels for import reasons. The rotor weight should reflect this by the Movado branding and stated 17 jewels. After my deep dive, I came to the conclusion that this rotor weight was likely replaced with a Zenith one during service. The watch is currently located in Belgium and is sold by a dealer. When I asked abut the rotor weight, they claimed the movement was entirely original to the watch. With skepticism, considering they likely are not the original owner/purchaser of the piece from ~69, I come here wondering: is the Zenith branded rotor weight more likely a part replaced during service or is there any documentation showing early references possibly came 31 jewel Zenith movements? Here is the watch in question
@MMMD , do you have any info on these mixtures of Movado and Zenith branded parts?
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BAJJ
·Maybe I need to create a new thread but I wanted to give this one a try as it has recently been active. This thread inspired me to learn more about this reference, which in turn I have now added this reference to my "gotta collect" list. I curiously began looking at all of the typical hunting grounds to familiarize myself with condition and general asking prices and I found this piece. It is advertised as being from '69 and looks to be overall good condition but the movement made me stop and deep dive into this forum and other sources to learn more. The piece in question has a Zenith branded rotor weight stating 31 jewels
From my understanding, Movado was sold to the North American market as Unadjusted and fewer (17) jewels for import reasons. The rotor weight should reflect this by the Movado branding and stated 17 jewels. After my deep dive, I came to the conclusion that this rotor weight was likely replaced with a Zenith one during service. The watch is currently located in Belgium and is sold by a dealer. When I asked abut the rotor weight, they claimed the movement was entirely original to the watch. With skepticism, considering they likely are not the original owner/purchaser of the piece from ~69, I come here wondering: is the Zenith branded rotor weight more likely a part replaced during service or is there any documentation showing early references possibly came 31 jewel Zenith movements? Here is the watch in question
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pdxleaf
·
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wristpirate
·That rotor is not original to that watch. The logo on it indicates it is from the 1990s.
I have seen Zenith rotors on Movado watches and the other way round. My own assumption is that the brand on the dial should match the brand on the rotor, but being 50 years old I doubt the quality control was what it is today.
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Scarecrow Boat
·That rotor is not original to that watch. The logo on it indicates it is from the 1990s.
I have seen Zenith rotors on Movado watches and the other way round. My own assumption is that the brand on the dial should match the brand on the rotor, but being 50 years old I doubt the quality control was what it is today.
Here is a 1969 Zenith branded 3019 PHC
The different variations in the years to follow
And finally, in the late '90s
For quick comparison, the Movado listed for sale
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Scarecrow Boat
·I am happy to finally be able to participate in this thread, now that I have my very own 🥰. It comes on its original ‘71 dated GF bracelet with dive extension. The crystal has the Movado M etched into the underside. It is the 17J version and I unfortunately can’t get my own pictures of the movement as the previous owner wrenched it down too tight for my rubber ball to remove. I’m not sure how subjected these were to being polished but this one is sharp all the way around. It’s a real looker and I quite enjoy wearing it, though I didn’t expect this bracelet to be such a hair puller.
And the sellers movement pictures
And the sellers movement pictures
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pdxleaf
·I am happy to finally be able to participate in this thread, now that I have my very own 🥰. ..
Congrats. That's in great shape. Definitely a beauty.
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pdxleaf
·Trying out a new strap.
Also like the bezel day/night flipped upside around. Feels brighter.
Also like the bezel day/night flipped upside around. Feels brighter.
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watchyouwant
·Short question: I thought the first Datachron labelled chronos were all without a turning bezel ? So, the Space one might be re cased later to serve better as a time measuring instrument? Any thoughts?
Edited:
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Scarecrow Boat
·Trying out a new strap.
Also like the bezel day/night flipped upside around. Feels brighter.
Edited:
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