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The rare and elusive Movado Datron HS 360 Subsea

  1. ghce Jul 2, 2022

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    I have so got to get one of these with a golden dial with black sub dials in 18K, they are beyond gorgeous.
     
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  2. MMMD unaffiliated curmudgeonly absurdist & polyologist Jul 3, 2022

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    Here is my “Skylab Commander” Datachron Chronodiver:
    8D40BF68-FB7C-41A1-AE32-9C074B389779.jpeg
    The only advertisement I’ve seen for Datachrons is this one from the New Yorker (November 29, 1969). The Datachron was therefore available in 1969; this ad places the Datachron among the earliest examples of the El Primero.
    66AE9595-CC62-4F07-9AAC-21B063247470.jpeg
    I have seen more than one of these Datachron/Datron Chronodivers on a GF ladder bracelet dated first quarter of 1969 and stamped with the reference number (138 705 501) of its dive watch twin, the Super Sub Sea 300 Tempomatic. It appears that Movado sold some Chronodivers with surplus bracelets meant for the Tempomatic.
    0D9DF8A1-933E-4EE1-9AB3-BC60DC160DE5.jpeg
    0A48B806-C6DE-4C58-9035-B10A1003E3E9.jpeg
    D1F8C238-17E1-4D3B-BB5E-54148542C8D0.jpeg
     
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  3. pdxleaf ... Jul 3, 2022

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    Maybe you can help me out.

    I have the bracelet you desctibe but with a riveted dive extension. It appears OEM but I am not certain. I'd like to remove it but don't believe I can without damaging it. It doesn't appear to be made to remove.

    Your explanation that the bracelet came with a dive watch makes sense, although I wasn't awate of the Tempomatic before. Does your Tempomatic have a dive extension?

    Perhaps I have the super rare spacesuit prototype extension. ;)

    20220703_110626.jpg 20220703_110612.jpg 20220703_110549.jpg 20220703_110516.jpg 20220703_110405.jpg
     
  4. MMMD unaffiliated curmudgeonly absurdist & polyologist Jul 3, 2022

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    Yes, both bracelets have the dive extension, which is definitely not designed to be removed.
     
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  5. Scarecrow Boat Burt Macklin, FBI Jul 5, 2022

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    Maybe I need to create a new thread but I wanted to give this one a try as it has recently been active. This thread inspired me to learn more about this reference, which in turn I have now added this reference to my "gotta collect" list. I curiously began looking at all of the typical hunting grounds to familiarize myself with condition and general asking prices and I found this piece. It is advertised as being from '69 and looks to be overall good condition but the movement made me stop and deep dive into this forum and other sources to learn more. The piece in question has a Zenith branded rotor weight stating 31 jewels

    From my understanding, Movado was sold to the North American market as Unadjusted and fewer (17) jewels for import reasons. The rotor weight should reflect this by the Movado branding and stated 17 jewels. After my deep dive, I came to the conclusion that this rotor weight was likely replaced with a Zenith one during service. The watch is currently located in Belgium and is sold by a dealer. When I asked abut the rotor weight, they claimed the movement was entirely original to the watch. With skepticism, considering they likely are not the original owner/purchaser of the piece from ~69, I come here wondering: is the Zenith branded rotor weight more likely a part replaced during service or is there any documentation showing early references possibly came 31 jewel Zenith movements? Here is the watch in question

    thumbnail_IMG_7991.jpg thumbnail_IMG_7995.jpg thumbnail_IMG_7994.jpg thumbnail_IMG_8005.jpg 23468408-y0bm1oej8dpz0ejqk7q1xqbw-ExtraLarge.jpg
     
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  6. pdxleaf ... Jul 5, 2022

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    I have read ( but couldn't find) other threads with similar questions about cobranding. My takeaway is that many watches received mix branded components.

    Also not a Movado expert, although I play one on the internet. If I was betting my own money I would be okay with a Zenith rotor.

    20220705_154348.jpg 20220705_154340.jpg
     
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  7. Scarecrow Boat Burt Macklin, FBI Jul 5, 2022

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    Hi Dave, thank you so much for responding and sharing this image. I appreciated being able to read this section. I have read several threads regarding the cobranding but from what I saw it was localized to the double signed dial: Movado Zenith. I think. I found two threads discussing the same question I have, but pertaining to the bezel-less version of this reference, and it was speculated the moved was swapped for Zenith during service. With all of the threads I had read through, the question I had seen pop up most was "is it 17j or 31j?" with the distinction that Movado should be 17j. If I interpreted what I read in those threads correctly, as well as the text above, it is plausible that early references may have come with 31j Zenith movements(?). To what you said above, I would also be okay with a Zenith branded rotor weight as it's rather at home on this movement. But I would also be very curious as to how original it is to understand the history of the piece more.

    I wanted to ask though- looking through previously sold references along with all currently for sale, of all that included movement shots, they were all Movado branded except this one.
     
  8. Emeister Donut-eatin desk-divin wannabe-astronaut fat dude Jul 6, 2022

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    I don't have the watches with me right now but I'm pretty sure I have Movado Datron's with both 17J and 31J movements.
    I had assumed Movado wasn't only sold in the USA so the 31J was a European / Rest of the World version.

    I'll see if I can find any pictures.
    Realise this is a bit different to your initial question.

    Edit:
    https://www.chrono24.com.au/movado/datron--id23610236.htm#gref
    20220706_223528.jpg

    https://watches83.com/en/vintage-mo...tch-cal-3019-phc-panda-dial-spectacular-.html
    20220706_223504.jpg
     
    Edited Jul 6, 2022
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  9. Scarecrow Boat Burt Macklin, FBI Jul 6, 2022

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    Thank you so much for responding! I had been under the impression that Zenith transitioned Movado to the North American market as a way to skirt the Zenith Radio Corporation issue, that is until Zenith Radio Corp had bought Zenith watches. But considering Movado was a stand alone Swiss brand prior to joining the Zenith Umbrella, it would make sense that these were sold globally and remained a global (this is me just processing what I am learning). I was briefly wondering why I hadn't seen your linked watches in my searches, but yeah, those are the bezel-less version, but still relevant to me understanding this :) . Through my continued deep dives, I found this archived link from a German auction house of a 31j in the bezel version:
    https://archiv.henrys.de/index.php

    25227569.jpg 25227569d.jpg


    The pieces are falling into place. I still have yet to find documentation showing Zenith branded movements were sold in Movados, and I am not entirely confident I will find that, but now knowing Movado's were sold as 31j movements, I can more easily accept a Zenith branded rotor weight under the hood of a Movado. I know it's an acceptable part to use considering these are El Primero's after all, but I would have been more put off with a mismatch of parts- 31j rotor weight on 17j movement.

    Thank you all for your help and talking me through this! I really enjoy learning, so I appreciate all of your time :)
     
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  10. pdxleaf ... Jul 6, 2022

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    @MMMD , do you have any info on these mixtures of Movado and Zenith branded parts?
     
  11. BAJJ Jul 7, 2022

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    I think it's highly likely that it's a replacement rotor, the one in the picture is from a late 90's early 00's Zenith and not a rotor from the late 60's, the pic below is from my 400z movement from the mid 00's.
    IMG_20220707_081106.jpg
     
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  12. minutenrohr Aug 1, 2022

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    Regards - HU

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  13. pdxleaf ... Aug 1, 2022

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  14. wristpirate Aug 1, 2022

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    That rotor is not original to that watch. The logo on it indicates it is from the 1990s.

    I have seen Zenith rotors on Movado watches and the other way round. My own assumption is that the brand on the dial should match the brand on the rotor, but being 50 years old I doubt the quality control was what it is today.
     
  15. Scarecrow Boat Burt Macklin, FBI Aug 1, 2022

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    Yeah, after @BAJJ comment above, I dove through the history of the 3019 PHC movement. A bit embarrassed as I could have thought to look into this prior to asking but... hindsight... But thanks to BAJJ, it encouraged me to look further and I happily learned more as a result.


    Here is a 1969 Zenith branded 3019 PHC
    Screen Shot 2022-07-30 at 8.10.09 PM.png

    The different variations in the years to follow
    Screen Shot 2022-07-31 at 9.05.47 PM.png


    And finally, in the late '90s
    Screen Shot 2022-07-30 at 8.09.51 PM.png

    For quick comparison, the Movado listed for sale
    Screen Shot 2022-07-30 at 9.04.50 PM.png
     
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  16. Scarecrow Boat Burt Macklin, FBI Aug 16, 2022

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    I am happy to finally be able to participate in this thread, now that I have my very own ::love::. It comes on its original ‘71 dated GF bracelet with dive extension. The crystal has the Movado M etched into the underside. It is the 17J version and I unfortunately can’t get my own pictures of the movement as the previous owner wrenched it down too tight for my rubber ball to remove. I’m not sure how subjected these were to being polished but this one is sharp all the way around. It’s a real looker and I quite enjoy wearing it, though I didn’t expect this bracelet to be such a hair puller.

    F0B56613-05D4-4009-A43D-E9A027256A4A.jpeg BFF8A806-6D41-4ADB-B6F8-1A3848AAA65C.jpeg 3C32B48A-7EF3-4D87-B07B-F87997F45AF2.jpeg 01CF1FB9-4517-4334-A1D8-097839CA8066.jpeg 5C33EFB5-F495-4E92-B48D-CCE8AB893523.jpeg 0A2ADCB8-1930-456D-95DC-A706CB95C203.jpeg C950CFAF-5822-4896-B77E-43FCACC61A31.jpeg
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    And the sellers movement pictures
    9F81717F-50DA-4113-9DB3-687171CE785D.jpeg 94E75C6A-3681-404A-84FA-57924B12FA18.jpeg
     
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  17. pdxleaf ... Aug 16, 2022

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    Congrats. That's in great shape. Definitely a beauty.
     
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  18. pdxleaf ... Sep 21, 2022

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    Trying out a new strap.

    Also like the bezel day/night flipped upside around. Feels brighter.

    20220921_185642.jpg
     
  19. watchyouwant ΩF Clairvoyant Sep 21, 2022

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    Short question: I thought the first Datachron labelled chronos were all without a turning bezel ? So, the Space one might be re cased later to serve better as a time measuring instrument? Any thoughts?
     
    Edited Sep 21, 2022
  20. Scarecrow Boat Burt Macklin, FBI Sep 21, 2022

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    Yours is looking good! I liked having mine rotated for a vertical line :) Kinda two face like

    0811CE17-4929-4ADD-98E4-5E18A8DF8E1F.jpeg
     
    Edited Sep 21, 2022