Community Stories

The "next one": buy BLNR now or wait for Speedmaster Moonphase Metas Co-axial 2016?

Archer
Posts
29,242
Likes
75,629
w.finkenstaedt w.finkenstaedt
https://www.omegawatches.com/planet-omega/watchmaking/the-worlds-first-master-chronometer/

So by your standards, because Omega doesn't specifically mention if they test Master Chronometers in a vacuum (i.e. negative air pressure), they might actually test them in a vacuum?

No, they don't. Don't overthink things.

argumentum ad ignorantiam.

It's not me that's overthinking it. And by the way all assembled watches at Omega get tested in a vacuum as part of the pressure testing.

Isochronism is a critical test of a watch movement, and Rolex has always done this test. If you are asserting that they no longer do so, the burden of proof is on you. So far I have not seen any...
 
w.finkenstaedt
Posts
680
Likes
755
Archer Archer
argumentum ad ignorantiam.

It's not me that's overthinking it. And by the way all assembled watches at Omega get tested in a vacuum as part of the pressure testing.

Isochronism is a critical test of a watch movement, and Rolex has always done this test. If you are asserting that they no longer do so, the burden of proof is on you. So far I have not seen any...
Of course they do. That's normal. But how does Superlative Chronometer change their test for isochronism? Omega came out with new standards for their new certification. Has Rolex done the same? I doubt it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Archer
Posts
29,242
Likes
75,629
w.finkenstaedt w.finkenstaedt
Of course they do. That's normal. But how does Superlative Chronometer change their test for isochronism? Omega came out with new standards for their new certification. Has Rolex done the same? I doubt it.

Okay, so now you admit they perform an isochronism test, because "that's normal", contrary to your previous assertion:

"Also note that Rolex doesn't test the power reserve delta"

But now you believe that they didn't change it to make it as good as Omegas, so when you have evidence of this, please post it...
 
w.finkenstaedt
Posts
680
Likes
755
Archer Archer
Okay, so now you admit they perform an isochronism test, because "that's normal", contrary to your previous assertion:

"Also note that Rolex doesn't test the power reserve delta"

But now you believe that they didn't change it to make it as good as Omegas, so when you have evidence of this, please post it...
All I'm saying is I appreciate Omega's willingness to lay out exactly how and what is tested on their watches. The fact that Rolex is very secretive about what and how they test other than daily rate is very disingenuous to me.

And that can be the end of our discussion. Thank you for being my autocorrect, despite us going head to head on a few occasions, I appreciate your willingness to share information as you know it with the forum. [emoji1360]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Archer
Posts
29,242
Likes
75,629
w.finkenstaedt w.finkenstaedt
All I'm saying is I appreciate Omega's willingness to lay out exactly how and what is tested on their watches. The fact that Rolex is very secretive about what and how they test other than daily rate is very disingenuous to me.

And that can be the end of our discussion. Thank you for being my autocorrect, despite us going head to head on a few occasions, I appreciate your willingness to share information as you know it with the forum. [emoji1360]

Omega may give some vague descriptions, but they certainly don't give you any details. Knowing what the actual tolerances are is not in documentation that is typically for public consumption, partly because most people would not care, and most would have no idea how to interpret it.

Omega did certainly change the way that isochronism is checked for the METAS watches, but does that mean they have tightened the tolerances? How would you know unless you knew the old method, and were able to compare it to the new method, using their actual tolerances? And even if it is tighter than before, how can you be so sure that it's tighter than Rolex tolerances are?

What you so desperately want to believe, may not be the case...that is why evidence is needed, not speculation...

Cheers, Al
 
Riviera Paradise
Posts
2,152
Likes
3,810
I see my attempt several posts ago to avoid a lengthy Rolex vs Omega movement certification discussion was completely ignored😁
 
w.finkenstaedt
Posts
680
Likes
755
Riviera Paradise Riviera Paradise
I see my attempt several posts ago to avoid a lengthy Rolex vs Omega movement certification discussion was completely ignored😁
Sorry! I try to avoid the conversation when possible. 🙁


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Archer
Posts
29,242
Likes
75,629
Riviera Paradise Riviera Paradise
I see my attempt several posts ago to avoid a lengthy Rolex vs Omega movement certification discussion was completely ignored😁

Not really - again it's about understanding fact from assumptions...they are not the same. If you are reading this as a Rolex v Omega things, you need to read it again.
 
Jking
Posts
578
Likes
2,659
Why do I have a feeling that at some point in the near future you will own them both?
 
Riviera Paradise
Posts
2,152
Likes
3,810
w.finkenstaedt w.finkenstaedt
Sorry! I try to avoid the conversation when possible. 🙁


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
No need to apologize mate I was just joking...
Archer is a wonderful source of information and fantastic contributor to several watch forums, including this one😀 but he does have a bit of a forum police attitude:whipped:...flashing his watchmaker sherrif badge every now then🙄 In this case I am actually in full agreement with him...there is no evidence that Rolex does not certify perfomance at a lower power reserve level...so...I would suggest to my friend...beware the Omega hubris on METAS...and enjoy watches from both brands👍😀
 
Riviera Paradise
Posts
2,152
Likes
3,810
Archer Archer
Not really - again it's about understanding fact from assumptions...they are not the same. If you are reading this as a Rolex v Omega things, you need to read it again.
A very big🥱
 
meganfox17
Posts
1,411
Likes
3,722
Riviera Paradise Riviera Paradise
I see my attempt several posts ago to avoid a lengthy Rolex vs Omega movement certification discussion was completely ignored😁

383ddfaf90029a3e8be07bc325c2719f.jpg
 
Archer
Posts
29,242
Likes
75,629
Just to add some facts to clarify the statement made here:

w.finkenstaedt w.finkenstaedt
Also note that Rolex doesn't test the power reserve delta, so your watch may run at +1 s/day, but it won't run at that at 30% power reserve. Omega METAS test involves making sure the delta is never too far apart (and not outside COSC at the very least).

I emailed a fellow watchmaker I know who works at a Rolex service center, and asked him specifically about how isochronism is tested on the new 3255 compared to a previous caliber like a 3135.

Rolex states their Delta tolerances (difference between fastest and slowest positions when checking on a timing machine) differently than Omega does. Omega states 2 different Delta tolerances at 2 different states of wind, where Rolex combines it all into one set of readings. So for example all Omega COSC watches are allowed to have a Delta at full wind of 12 seconds over 5 positions, and at 24 hours after full wind, that Delta can be as much as 15 seconds.

Rolex states that for a 3135 the Delta over 10 readings (5 positions at full wind + 5 positions 24 hours after full wind) should be no more than 12 seconds. This is already tighter than Omega, but the 3255 takes it even further, and states that the Delta of all 10 readings on that movement should be no more than 8 seconds. So indeed they do test this, and it has been tightened for the new movement.

Per the latest update of the Work Instruction for timing checks, Omega's Master Chronometer testing allows the Delta at full wind over 6 positions to be either 12, 14 or 16 seconds depending on the specific caliber. At 24 hours after full wind, some calibers have no tolerances listed, and those that do allow either 15 or 16 seconds of Delta over 6 positions. The previous revision showed testing down to 1/3 of the power reserve, but those columns are no longer on the pages as of the last update in September, so things seem to be in a bit of a flux there to say the least...

Cheers, Al
 
meganfox17
Posts
1,411
Likes
3,722
Archer Archer
Per the latest update of the Work Instruction for timing checks, Omega's Master Chronometer testing allows the Delta at full wind over 6 positions to be either 12, 14 or 16 seconds depending on the specific caliber. At 24 hours after full wind, some calibers have no tolerances listed, and those that do allow either 15 or 16 seconds of Delta over 6 positions. The previous revision showed testing down to 1/3 of the power reserve, but those columns are no longer on the pages as of the last update in September, so things seem to be in a bit of a flux there to say the least...

Cheers, Al

Mr @Archer. Can I ask you two questions Sir ?
● Is 24 hrs after a full wind of my Glb MC equals to 2/3rd of the power reserves ? Here's some data c7c3425709fa136d26f2f66271b9823e.jpg
●Although those columns not longer appear , the METAS criteria must still be observed at 1/3rd of the power reserves right ?
...regardless of whether the Work Instructions were updated or not
Edited:
 
32 More Posts...
Sign up or log in to reply...

Similar threads

M

Omega Seamaster Diver 300M - Buy it now, or wait for the new generation?

milkatar2120 Modern Omega Watches
dsd-7
dsd-7
Posts
48
Views
21K
lindo

Start selling pieces from my collection now, or wait a while?

lindo Open Discussion
wagudc
wagudc
Posts
26
Views
5K
A

Seamaster 300M now or wait?

Al_Snoopy Modern Omega Watches
DougPhx
DougPhx
Posts
27
Views
10K
FedFod

Buying The Sapphire Sandwich Speedmaster or Wait for the 3861

FedFod Vintage Omega Watches Help, Discussion and Advice
Evitzee
Evitzee
Posts
3
Views
3K
U

Speedy Tuesday - buy now or wait and hope prices fall

uberwatchn00b Modern Omega Watches
Theognosis
Theognosis
Posts
40
Views
5K
larryganz

Need to decide quickly, X-33 Solar Impulse on Ti Bracelet now, or wait for black X-33

larryganz Modern Omega Watches
rgb
rgb
Posts
39
Views
7K