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gbesq
·Although virtually all of us will never use the HEV, it is pretty cool from an engineering standpoint. If some view it as a gimmick, it’s still a gimmick that actually works.
The He valve, usage in theory and practice
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Kiltie
·It should be highlighted that 99% of us, or more, will never be breathing helium in a gas filled (dry) decompression chamber. This would be the only place where helium would sneak into your watch case. It would not enter while you are in the water. So, unless you find you scuba tanks being filled helium/oxygen instead of air, I would not worry about your valve needing to be used.
This, in combination with Archer's mechanical explanation of the valve itself, is all that really needs to be said ( excepting the part about tanks being filled with trimix - that would have nothing to do with helium in the watch ).
The chamber is where the helium is. There's no buildup from simply diving, at any depth* - except pressure on the outside, naturally. Inside the chamber is the helium mixture that infiltrates the watch - and what keeps the diver from getting decompression sickness/ injury.
It's not "useless". An automatic one seems to be more...intuitive? But the watches that have He valves are marketed as Professional Dive Watches. They do have a practical use : for professional saturation divers who choose to use/ wear them.
And contrary to what everyone says, while it is rare, there are those who do.
It is, indeed, useless to anyone who will never see the inside of a decompression chamber. And none of those people HAVE to buy one.
There are, by my calculations, exactly ONE MILLION FOUR HUNDRED FIFTY THOUSAND THREE HUNDRE SIXTY-FOUR other models of dive watches rated at one to two hundred meters, none of which have the valves, to choose from. Add to that: chronos, field watches, GMTs, dress watches, smart watches, etc... It's like, eleventy billion options ( give or take ).
*therefore, no reason to open the valve in the water, at any depth.
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Foo2rama
··Nowhere near as grumpy as he used to be...Omg such bad info…
1st if a watch is worn outside the suit and is never in a pressurized gas environment ie in the water it would never have to have the he valve open.
generally you will find the watch is either external the entire time or internal the entire time. If it’s internal the entire time it’s inside the suit and never exposed to water, and in theory the He balance would never need to be closed.
1st if a watch is worn outside the suit and is never in a pressurized gas environment ie in the water it would never have to have the he valve open.
generally you will find the watch is either external the entire time or internal the entire time. If it’s internal the entire time it’s inside the suit and never exposed to water, and in theory the He balance would never need to be closed.
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Kiltie
·Omg such bad info…
1st if a watch is worn outside the suit and is never in a pressurized gas environment ie in the water it would never have to have the he valve open.
generally you will find the watch is either external the entire time or internal the entire time. If it’s internal the entire time it’s inside the suit and never exposed to water, and in theory the He balance would never need to be closed.
If you're saying water has nothing to do with the need/ use of the HEV, then here's your like ( thumb emoji ).
I trust I wasn't in the "bad info" category ( also, winky emoji )
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vintage hab
·Again, the valve is one way only, and is spring loaded to the closed position, so it takes pressure inside to unseat it
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Duckie
·I was under the impression that Rolex have automatic He relief valves (spring-loaded) but that the Omega He relief valves are manual, ie the user needs to unscrew it. If the Omega He valve is spring-loaded, why would the user need to unscrew the valve?
Probably an insurance policy against a faulty automatic valve.
Not all that long ago there was a Deepsea which had leaked somehow through exposure to a hot tub submersion.
Strangely enough it took a few visits to the Rolex Service Centre before they were able to sort it out.
The poor owner was a little put off by the end of it all if i recall correctly.
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STANDY
··schizophrenic pizza orderer and watch collectorIt’s a design gimmick that Omega wants to keep.
If swatch can have this on a 1000m Certina
If swatch can have this on a 1000m Certina
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Archer
··Omega Qualified WatchmakerI was under the impression that Rolex have automatic He relief valves (spring-loaded) but that the Omega He relief valves are manual, ie the user needs to unscrew it. If the Omega He valve is spring-loaded, why would the user need to unscrew the valve?
These valves do operate quite differently, so the description I used above is probably not ideal given that it doesn't explain how the Omega valve is different in the use of the spring - sorry about that. The cap has a spring under it, with a function similar to that of a screw down drown, to push the cap away from the tube and keep it there while decompressing.
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Vercingetorix
··Spam Risk2000 meters and no Helium valve. They both are gimmicks.
Edited:
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eugeneandresson
·Helium escape valves have a single purpose...
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drhex
·As nobody has written it up in this thread:
Helium is a very small atom and therefore able to permeate through rubber seals. This causes the watch to slowly equalize pressure if kept in a partly helium filled pressurized environment (i.e. the diver habitat at the bottom). As the watch usually comes from sea level, it will have lower pressure inside, helium now starts to get into the watch over the course of days. Once you start decompressing the drop in surrounding pressure is faster than the helium can escape back through the gaskets, this could lead to the glass popping out - He valve needs to be opened.
Divers don‘t work much higher up than the habitat sits, as they would otherwise get decompression sickness - so having He in the watch while working isn‘t an issue. As someone else pointed out, working at the same depth or deeper is no issue, that happens regularly.
Helium is a very small atom and therefore able to permeate through rubber seals. This causes the watch to slowly equalize pressure if kept in a partly helium filled pressurized environment (i.e. the diver habitat at the bottom). As the watch usually comes from sea level, it will have lower pressure inside, helium now starts to get into the watch over the course of days. Once you start decompressing the drop in surrounding pressure is faster than the helium can escape back through the gaskets, this could lead to the glass popping out - He valve needs to be opened.
Divers don‘t work much higher up than the habitat sits, as they would otherwise get decompression sickness - so having He in the watch while working isn‘t an issue. As someone else pointed out, working at the same depth or deeper is no issue, that happens regularly.
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Lbennett
·I put a notch in mine and use it as a bottle opener
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Crunchie
·An interesting article about “the life of a saturation diver”
A world away from floating down a few feet to see the pretty fishes!
https://www.theguardian.com/careers/careers-blog/under-pressure-job-deep-sea-diver
A world away from floating down a few feet to see the pretty fishes!
https://www.theguardian.com/careers/careers-blog/under-pressure-job-deep-sea-diver
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PandaSPUR
·I've seen this article posted a few times in the past, and its a good read: https://www.ablogtowatch.com/confessions-commercial-diver-helium-release-valve/
My takeaways:
1. HEVs are "safer" in that they are one-way valves
2. Crowns can also be used to release He during decompression, but only if you left the crown unscrewed during the initial saturation.
3. If the crown was screwed down during saturation, apparently the pressure differential makes it so that you cant operate the crown
4. Automatic HEVs are the most "fool proof" but screw down HEVs can still be used without having to remember to unscrew them during the saturation cycle, unlike crowns.
5. Decompression can last days, so leaving your actual crown open that long is likely undesirable. I'd personally be worried I accidentally bend the crown stem or something.
My takeaways:
1. HEVs are "safer" in that they are one-way valves
2. Crowns can also be used to release He during decompression, but only if you left the crown unscrewed during the initial saturation.
3. If the crown was screwed down during saturation, apparently the pressure differential makes it so that you cant operate the crown
4. Automatic HEVs are the most "fool proof" but screw down HEVs can still be used without having to remember to unscrew them during the saturation cycle, unlike crowns.
5. Decompression can last days, so leaving your actual crown open that long is likely undesirable. I'd personally be worried I accidentally bend the crown stem or something.
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josiahg52
·As I understand it, the Seamaster has an relief valve similar in operation to the "low-profile" valves on numerous other watches. The screw-down part of the Omega watches is positive-assurance against the valve opening (somehow) inadvertently. A proper helium-escape valve is a function some (relatively very few) might need to use at all and not necessarily a gimmick. It could be argued the screw-down part of the Omega relief valve is.
I don't think that the presence or absence of the relief valve is related to the depth rating except the seals usually work both ways; if the watch and seals can stand x bar external pressure, they should be able to stand x bar internal pressure and shouldn't matter if the time-setting crown is screwed down or not. The Seiko I have is rated to 200 meters and doesn't have a valve. If helium can get in it will eventually find it's way out completely on it's own. The question is for that Seiko or any other watch absent a relief valve is if the natural and inevitable reduction in internal pressure will occur fast enough to prevent a crystal or seal blow out.
I don't know. I'm not a watch professional. I just like watches.
I don't think that the presence or absence of the relief valve is related to the depth rating except the seals usually work both ways; if the watch and seals can stand x bar external pressure, they should be able to stand x bar internal pressure and shouldn't matter if the time-setting crown is screwed down or not. The Seiko I have is rated to 200 meters and doesn't have a valve. If helium can get in it will eventually find it's way out completely on it's own. The question is for that Seiko or any other watch absent a relief valve is if the natural and inevitable reduction in internal pressure will occur fast enough to prevent a crystal or seal blow out.
I don't know. I'm not a watch professional. I just like watches.
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PandaSPUR
·I don't think that the presence or absence of the relief valve is related to the depth rating except the seals usually work both ways; if the watch and seals can stand x bar external pressure, they should be able to stand x bar internal pressure and shouldn't matter if the time-setting crown is screwed down or not. The Seiko I have is rated to 200 meters and doesn't have a valve. If helium can get in it will eventually find it's way out completely on it's own. The question is for that Seiko or any other watch absent a relief valve is if the natural and inevitable reduction in internal pressure will occur fast enough to prevent a crystal or seal blow out.
I agree with the first part, the He valve has nothing directly to do with the depth rating of the watch alone. But yes, if you are a saturation diver going down to those depths, you will want a He valve for when you decompress.
However, I don't think its true that internal and external pressure work the same way for dive watches. If that were true, wouldnt it be impossible for a watchmaker to take apart the watch, remove the crystal, etc. That would be a hell of a lot of pressure they need to exert.
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josiahg52
·I agree with the first part, the He valve has nothing directly to do with the depth rating of the watch alone. But yes, if you are a saturation diver going down to those depths, you will want a He valve for when you decompress.
However, I don't think its true that internal and external pressure work the same way for dive watches. If that were true, wouldnt it be impossible for a watchmaker to take apart the watch, remove the crystal, etc. That would be a hell of a lot of pressure they need to exert.
I think Al would be able to answer this. In my mind, I think the "crystal seal" is the "weakest" part of the system. I think also this kind of proves the "disconnect" between depth rating and the presence or absence of a relief valve. Like the 2000m rated watch above without a relief valve. Does that mean internal pressure relief is not a concern at all? Does it have a "special" or "difficult" but highly functional sealing system? I have no idea. Makes you think. Maybe the pressure reliefs are frivolous and gimmicky and totally unnecessary these days.
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PandaSPUR
·I think Al would be able to answer this. In my mind, I think the "crystal seal" is the "weakest" part of the system. I think also this kind of proves the "disconnect" between depth rating and the presence or absence of a relief valve. Like the 2000m rated watch above without a relief valve. Does that mean internal pressure relief is not a concern at all? Does it have a "special" or "difficult" but highly functional sealing system? I have no idea. Makes you think. Maybe the pressure reliefs are frivolous and gimmicky and totally unnecessary these days.
Well the valve is entirely meant to prevent helium on the inside from pushing the crystal out during decompression, when the helium causes internal pressure to exceed external pressure.
I assume for watches like the one posted previously, the crystal is epoxied or somehow more permanently fixed to prevent it from popping out during decompression. In a watch like that, the helium would just be forced to slowly exit the same way it entered the watch.
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josiahg52
·Well the valve is entirely meant to prevent helium on the inside from pushing the crystal out during decompression, when the helium causes internal pressure to exceed external pressure.
I understand what the valve is for. I was hoping Al might be able to answer the question regarding how construction of these watches with higher depth/pressure ratings differ from the more pedestrian rated watches. Al has already chimed in with his knowledge and experience but I'd like to ask a little more.
I assume for watches like the one posted previously, the crystal is epoxied or somehow more permanently fixed to prevent it from popping out during decompression. In a watch like that, the helium would just be forced to slowly exit the same way it entered the watch.
I don't think so except that it is "more permanent" in that it will be more robust by design due to the higher rating. I think a watch that is rated for decompression will have a relief valve by design. This doesn't mean a watch without a relief will fail every time or at all. In fact, a 30 ATM watch probably would survive a decompression event because of it's less robust sealing systems while likely not surviving the diving event that made the decompression necessary in the first place. I just don't think that there are more than a few novel ways to seal a watch case and its crystal.
So the question is, is there a "curve" where the pressure/depth rating and the requisite methods/design/style of the seals make a relief valve redundant? Even my 1000m Oris has a relief valve.
Would the manufacturer of that 2000m rated watch tell a customer that decompression (of the watch) is not a concern?
I think to suggest that there is an intended or even direct correlation between depth/pressure rating and a watch's resistance to decompression failure is wrong. There might be an incidental or casual relationship only because those higher-rated watches have more robust sealing systems and can withstand a higher differential pressure for longer periods of time.
Very interesting discussion. Paul Scurfield of Scurfa Watches might be interesting to speak to as he has probably seen multiple watches in various situations and how they fail.
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