Speedmaster movement serial numbers

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Show me the statements. I said I didn't have trouble with serials. I never said my bezels or dials were all right, but the dials are, actually. Movements match the cases and dials. But I never made those claims before. You tend to take a few words and make them into something different. And now you'll speak for EVERYONE else? Good Lord. This is a colossal waste of energy. I choose the right words for a living and do quite well. I know exactly what I've stated here. I also NEVER claimed MWO was wrong. Read my words. I've said it is a great guide but simply can't have definitive answers where there are no such answers. You all should start a thread just about that book. It's time to have an honest discussion about the weight it is being given in this hobby. I believe the writers did the best they could given limited info. Yes, Omega gave them some access, but OMEGA also doesn't have many of the answers. I know you all want things to be black and white, but they just aren't. Those watches were built by humans pulling parts from bins, and if there were older or newer parts in a bin on a given day, who knows which dial went on which watch....within reason. And when you go back to the 2915 and 2998, it's even murkier.

I said it appears that way in every post I made. I also stated no one appears to be attacking you, but asking questions with the intent I stated. As someone that does this for a living, you should see that there is an encoding decoding issue happening here.

Your comment here is a prime example, your claiming transitional watches are more common then normally accepted which is a pretty bold statement to male. I would wager that many people here see a small problem with the logic in that statement. Under that logic you would expect to see more earlier pieces on later watches, instead you see almost exclusively later pieces on earlier watches. This is more easily explained by the newer pieces being added during service. Lets look at a newer reference for this as an example. The 145.022-74 is normally accepted to not have a step dial and only have the domed dial with the step dial font. ie non-rop "S" drop "r." (but I argue it's OK). But how can you explain the number of -74's with the step dial? The odds here are that early 74's had carry over parts from the -71 series or earlier, as odds of it being replaced with an earlier dial are fairly low. Conversely a -71 with a domed dial would be considered wrong or replaced at a later date with a newer dial. Data supports this as -71 are not found with the -74/early76 early font domed dial, only with later drop "S" dials from -76 production and later. Yes I understand that this is just one example, but this extends to many of the other inconsistencies, and is the logic used to determine what is correct and not, as well as using period marketing material and many examples of known unmolested watches which do not have earlier pieces on later watches.
 
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Show me the statements. I said I didn't have trouble with serials. I never said my bezels or dials were all right, but the dials are, actually. Movements match the cases and dials. But I never made those claims before. You tend to take a few words and make them into something different. And now you'll speak for EVERYONE else? Good Lord. This is a colossal waste of energy. I choose the right words for a living and do quite well. I know exactly what I've stated here. I also NEVER claimed MWO was wrong. Read my words. I've said it is a great guide but simply can't have definitive answers where there are no such answers. You all should start a thread just about that book. It's time to have an honest discussion about the weight it is being given in this hobby. I believe the writers did the best they could given limited info. Yes, Omega gave them some access, but OMEGA also doesn't have many of the answers. I know you all want things to be black and white, but they just aren't. Those watches were built by humans pulling parts from bins, and if there were older or newer parts in a bin on a given day, who knows which dial went on which watch....within reason. And when you go back to the 2915 and 2998, it's even murkier.
............. i agree with you regarding the " Bible " status of the MWO book. it is a guide, not a commandment. I started in the late 80`s with Omegas and learn everyday. a more humble tone and approach would have helped your induction here. if you do not want to show your watches for privacy reasons, that is fine. it is always better to back up claims and often a picture says it all without written mis understandings.
and that is a "welcome here " from down under. kind regards. achim
 
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Well that was... Odd. A shame to lose a new member so quickly, but I guess this just wasn't the place for her.


The internet, I mean.
 
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Well that was... Odd.

Only just opened this thread and find it very bizarre.
Internet conversation misunderstandings aside.
It's as if there is a page missing between page 1 and 2. Was there a lot of post editing/deleting or quoting from different threads?
 
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Only just opened this thread and find it very bizarre.
Internet conversation misunderstandings aside.
It's as if there is a page missing between page 1 and 2. Was there a lot of post editing/deleting or quoting from different threads?
My feelings are similar. I blinked and seem to have missed some important mid-posts (since deleted) that added much needed context to understand the outcome.

All-in-all it seemed like a fairly civil bantering about with some difference of opinion, but then escalated and eventually resulted in flameout. Too bad as I was enjoying the banter quite a bit.

I don't have a "horse in the race" as vintage watches don't really do it for me. To my thinking, the idea that some/many of the highly valued vintage watches may actually have been hobbled together from multiple "period correct" pieces, and because of this they attain (or even reach) much higher valuations as a result, somewhat boggles my mind.

I'm not very knowledgeable, but it seems a DON bezel was produced for about a decade...(?). And a serial number watch from that decade must have a DON bezel (although it can be from any other watch in that decade) if it is to hold a high value. So you could have a watch from 1st year of the decade having a replacement bezel from another watch almost 10 years later, and that would be fine as no one would know the difference. However, if a watch from the end of the decade had an OEM replacement bezel put on after a few years, but this was not a DON, then the watch suddenly loses a lot of "value"... I know this is sacrilege to you vintage fans, but that doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

In the vintage car world, a "numbers matching car" is highly prized because you know the majority of the car is kept intact and together with the original components. I understand on many watch components (like the bezel) there are no serial number markings and so "numbers matching" is limited to very few major components...

Anyhow, I very much enjoy peering down the rabbit hole and watching the passionate debate that goes on, even if much of it goes over my head...
 
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Perhaps the problem with this thread is that the OP was not very clear with what she meant.. She stated in her opening thread that she did not believe many movements were non original, which might be interpreted as not many movements have incorrect replacement parts. Later she says that she does not think many movements were swapped. Perhaps this has lead to a misunderstanding of whatever point she was trying to make.
 
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However, if a watch from the end of the decade had an OEM replacement bezel put on after a few years, but this was not a DON, then the watch suddenly loses a lot of "value"... I know this is sacrilege to you vintage fans, but that doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

Using cars as an example, it's like the difference between a '68 Fastback with the original-spec wheel design, versus one with a Fox-body's wheels. Both equally attractive? You decide.... for me, no way!
 
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Using cars as an example, it's like the difference between a '68 Fastback with the original-spec wheel design, versus one with a Fox-body's wheels. Both equally attractive? You decide.... for me, no way!
Well done, you've convinced me with a simple and well thought out argument.
Reminds me of "mama always had a way of explaining things so as I could understand them...". 😉

Although I would gladly put on some sharp aftermarket rims if a bunch of vintage nuts were driving OEM vintage prices for my '68 into orbit!! Doh!!! 😉

There was some discussion about Speedmaster vintage fan'dom being a "religion", and I'd agree with the response that many consumer goods collector types have religious-like followings. I'm glad the love of this watch hobby allows a simple modern fan like myself to roll with all you disciples of originality for old pieces. 😀
 
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You think speedies are a fandom... never delve into vintage Subs. Paneristas are even worse as they aren't obsessing over vintage models, don't get me started on their strap obsession.

You are correct there is no way to tell if a watch did not have the correct parts added later. But there is a visual test. A corroded aged dial with new looking hands and bezel even if all correct sticks out. If the watch looks right and has the correct parts it is accepted as "original".
 
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Although I would gladly put on some sharp aftermarket rims if a bunch of vintage nuts were driving OEM vintage prices for my '68 into orbit!!

This is a very interesting point, and one I've thought about for a while now. I personally wouldn't mind seeing a market for aftermarket DON bezels (for instance), maybe that had a different flair (like blue, ghost, red etc) that while immediately recognizable as un-original, are still attractive in their own way.
 
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This might not be the correct terminology but I'm referring to the 'clutch bridge' that should be symmetrical on this age of movement, along with the 'adjuster index' which should be arrow shaped, not lozenge.
I think the term @Archer has used in the past is "Coupling yoke" for that part (the first one)
For reference, Omega service manual calls this "coupling bridge". The yoke is the piece that this bridge is screwed on. There are several other yokes on this momevent.
 
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There are several other yokes on this momevent.
can`t resist to replace the Y with a J......... sorry. kind regards. achim
 
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can`t resist to replace the Y with a J......... sorry. kind regards. achim
Hah, that's a good yoke you got there 😁
 
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Ok, which one of you is responsible for chasing off my forum pal who graciously provided me some expert and valuable nutritional advice? 😵‍💫
 
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The only thing we've learned from this thread: the internet is hard.