I've noticed in my brief time posting on this forum that there is a lot of concern and discussion regarding correct movement serials. Of course we all want our watches to be correct, and there are a couple of reliable resources to check serial numbers online, but in my experience (and more importantly my husband's, which goes back to the 80s buying Speedmasters) I can't say as either of us has ever bought or owned a "moon watch" with a movement that seemed to be non-original. Maybe we've just been VERY lucky. I don't know how many old Speedmasters are stuffed in our drawers and safe deposit boxes, but it's a fairly large group. I guess I'm asking if others have had issues with movements being swapped. I think it's incredibly rare that a movement is replaced rather than repaired whether by Omega or another watchmaker.

 

This one for a start

https://omegaforums.net/threads/49-000-ebay-2915-3.51961/#post-629040

The serial is ok I think, but ut looks like an early serial bridge has been put on a later movement.

 

It happens quite regularly, especially on ebay.

Also, given current resources like mwo, speed101, and this site, ranges for somethings can be quite narrow.. Like ultramans, or racing dials or 220 bezels or brown dials, or even specific references.

I would want to confirm that the movement number matches the generally accepted ranges.

 

We buy from eBay consistently and very rarely see mismatched cases/ movements. Of course there are put together watches, but they are easy to spot. I'm referring to watches that appear relatively unmolested.

 

Personally, I'd always verify before buying.

 

Most of the time we do see the movement before buying, but many of the the best deals are on watches with poor photos. As for the 2915-3 listed on ebay now, that watch clearly has some issues with originality...dial, hands, etc, but to say the bridge has been replaced due to the clumsy screwdriver work is a bit of a stretch. I suspect if you could see the rest of movement up close, it has other gouges from a ham-fisted amateur watchmaker. Would I buy that watch? No. Is the movement incorrect? There is simply is no way to say it is not with certainty. And it is an example of a put together watch should be scrutinized.

 

I said the bridge may have been replaced with the rest of the movement being newer as there are parts on that movement that don't beling on a 16mil serial 321.

 

I see a lot of pieced together watches on eBay. Just recently there has been 2 threads on mismatched speedies in the past week. Another member might have gotten one from a dealer this week it depends on which of 2 options creates the mismatch.

Multiple watches from South America are on eBay that are put together.

In many cases there is just no way to know if the serial matches the case reference... but there are a lot of obvious ones out there and many that have the wrong dial.

I'd only use the Speedmaster101.com serial chart. It's widely accepted as the authority on speedmaster serials.

 

This might not be the correct terminology but I'm referring to the 'clutch bridge' that should be symmetrical on this age of movement, along with the 'adjuster index' which should be arrow shaped, not lozenge.

 

If I was buying a deal watch, I might take the gamble, but if I'm spending more than a few thousand (say more than Parts value), then I am checking the movement number.

Nothing wrong with taking a gamble or making an educated decision.. I bought a 105.003 last year for $1800 with a nice DON and an 861 inside. But would I spend $15K on a 2998 without seeing the movement and confirming it's right, probably not.

 

For 861 Speedmasters, movement number isn't as important, since there's not much money to be made fraudulently swapping in Seamaster movements or casebacks. But for '60s Speedmasters, knowing the serial is correct is very important when looking at a 105.003 or 105.012 for instance. Since these are nearing 10-15k US, knowing that the 105.003 you're buying has a serial in the correct range rather than one swapped in from a much cheaper 145.012 or Seamaster is very important

 

I wonder how anyone bought a watch safely before MWO.

I will say that the 2915-3 in question has enough issues to warrant a closer look, which one or two you definitely took. I guess I'm guilty of not studying enough and just buying.

I suppose I should be happy about this arm-chair watch collecting. It is probably making all of our watches worth more, somehow.

 

Well, remember that these were only worth a couple hundred dollars for decades, and MWO was published around the time that interest in the Speedmaster was rising, and values followed. Back then, spending the effort to swap a movement into a $300-500 watch just wouldn't have been worth it, and the only people buying them were the nerds who truly cared about them and probably either knew what they needed to, or just didn't care

Now that these are $4000 and up, originality and correctness are much more important - and fortunately we have MWO and Speedmaster101 to help us out!

 

if you never had that problem, why do you ask ? if you bought that many speedmasters, that you lost count in the drawers and various safe deposit boxes, how would you know, that your movements are all fine and correct for that specific watch? for many 2915 and even some early 2998 speedmasters there is no excerpt from the archives, because the lemania database was not matched with omega for the early years of the speedmaster. it seems random sometimes; i did not get excerpts for roughly 40% of my previous 2915 and early 2998`s. but the museum responds to the archive request and tells you the status. kind regards. achim

 

Exactly the kind of post that drives people away. Whether my husband and I have no idea at any one moment how many watches we own is quite beside the point. We do have a listing of serial numbers, somewhere, not that it's any of your affair. Your subtle dig was very impressive. I asked the question because of the incessant discussion of serial numbers when I have not ever had any issues with them. Of course, I don't buy watches that appear to have multiple issues. I can't type what I'd like to add. If your goal is to drive away very serious collectors who just happen to have not cared to join a forum until recently, you're doing a great job.

 

Let's not get carried away and create a problem where there isn't one.

I agree with you to an extent, in that watches procured directly from a private owner are generally unlikely to have issues with incorrect movements. However, with the price surges over the last few years, there does seem to be more and more dogs that have been resssurected with incorrect parts and movements. Furthermore, even when these and other vintage watches were cheap there's always the chance that a watchmaker swapped out a non working movement decades ago, simply to get the watch working again in a timely manner.

For the amount of time it takes, why would you not check the serial of a potential purchase matches a known range for that reference?!

 

I don't see what was said that would do this.


TLDR:I think you are confusing being attacked, with attempts of clarification on what you mean and how you got to your conclusions.


I will tell you what I (we?) have seen. Some grand all encompassing statements that can be a little dangerous to make in a vacuum. Without ever seeing any real evaluations from you or knowing your methodology from first hand knowledge some of the statements made appear to be a little off. I have seen this in at least 2 threads. I am not trying to start a fight, I'm just saying what I personally have noticed. An example is this thread, proclamation of being an expert while making the very dangerous and vague statement of not seeing alot of mismatched cases and movements, nor cobbled together movements. We could all be saying the same thing, but it appears that you are claiming they are rare and possibly to protect your personal evaluation of your collection. Now coupled with your statement that you weed out with obvious mismatched dials is also vague. We have no idea how you make that determination, and a new collector would assume that he would be safe buying a watch on ebay as frankenwatches are rare.

On the other hand you could be the best expert out there on dials and there is a lot of truth that mismatched movements to cases appears to be somewhat uncommon without the matching wrong dial/hands/bezel, and you are discarding these from the discussion and assuming everyone can also make that leap. Which also seems to skip a few steps in the evaluation process many of the people here use.

When you claim you have had no issue with serial numbers what does that mean? How do we know your right? How do we know if your wrong, and potentially keeping yourself in the dark to protect your perceived value on your collection and are making thinking something is correct when the 3 main sources are saying otherwise?