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Speedmaster 861 Chronograph wont reset

K
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Hi, I dont know if this topic has been answered before but I am having trouble finding a thread about this topic.

I purchased a neo vintage Speedmaster 861 (circa 1996 model). The watch was sold as newly serviced and it had a hairspring replaced. I dont doubt that the watch was serviced.

I have had the watch for 5 months and I hardly have used the chrono function. I recently used the chronometer after the watch had been wound for say 12 hours and I had trouble reseting the watch back to the 12 oclock position and the small minute counter (at 3 oclock) would not reset either. After trial and error I found that it would reset only if I fully wound the watch.

Is this normal? If it isnt - is this a common problem with the 861 movement? The watch is working fine otherwise. I wind it everymorning and I am enjoying wearing it.

Any tips or advice would be appreciated.
 
Gav1967
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I assume you mean Chronograph and not Chronometer?
 
Delroyb
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Does the start/stop button work ok? There is a common fault with the 861 movement where the operating lever for hour hammer can get worn/broken preventing it being reset. It was one of the parts I had to replace on a Mk2 Speedy I serviced recently. The bit marked 1784 here.
upload_2024-5-19_16-50-33.jpeg
 
K
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Thanks for the reply. The start stop function works fine. There is no issue with it. I let the watch wind down over 12 hours and i tried it again and it reset ok.

I am wondering if the watch being exposed to the outside cold weather might have anything to do with it. Would expension and contraction of the metal parts within the watch play a role.
 
Evitzee
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K koulourio
Thanks for the reply. The start stop function works fine. There is no issue with it. I let the watch wind down over 12 hours and i tried it again and it reset ok.

I am wondering if the watch being exposed to the outside cold weather might have anything to do with it. Would expension and contraction of the metal parts within the watch play a role.
Expansion of the parts wouldn't play a role. Are you sure you are fully winding the watch to a full, hard stop each morning? If you aren't then that 12 hour wind down may be putting you in a low power reserve situation when you get that odd behavior.
 
K
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Evitzee Evitzee
Expansion of the parts wouldn't play a role. Are you sure you are fully winding the watch to a full, hard stop each morning? If you aren't then that 12 hour wind down may be putting you in a low power reserve situation when you get that odd behavior.

It definitely gets a full wind every morning. It has happened twice to me when i have tried to time a football game half at night. On both occassions it wouldnt reset for the second half but it would do it the next day.
 
Archer
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K koulourio
I recently used the chronometer after the watch had been wound for say 12 hours and I had trouble reseting the watch back to the 12 oclock position and the small minute counter (at 3 oclock) would not reset either. After trial and error I found that it would reset only if I fully wound the watch.

The watch being fully wound or not has nothing to do with resetting of the chronograph parts.

Also, the hour recorder operating lever would have nothing to do with the reset of the minute counter.

Did you get any proof that a recent service has been done? Not just the seller telling you, but some form of documentation from a watchmaker? The claim that the balance spring was just replaced - are you sure it wasn't the mainspring? Omega doesn't sell the balance spring as a separate part, and it would be unusual to need that replaced anyway.

My guess, given what you have described, is that the service wasn't as recent as it was claimed to be, or it wasn't done very well. You could ask the seller for a refund and send it back, or a partial refund to help offset the cost of having it serviced properly...
 
Delroyb
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Archer Archer
Also, the hour recorder operating lever would have nothing to do with the reset of the minute counter.

Archer, I bow to your greater experience, but am I not right in thinking that the part 1784, against which the lower pusher acts, is the bit that starts the entire reset action off? With the hour hammer also operating the rest of the mechanism, or have I got my understanding of the mechanics the the 861 arse about face? Obviously, if it is only the minute counter that is not resetting, this would be irrelevant but I read it as the entire chrono is not resetting?
 
Archer
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Delroyb Delroyb
Archer, I bow to your greater experience, but am I not right in thinking that the part 1784, against which the lower pusher acts, is the bit that starts the entire reset action off? With the hour hammer also operating the rest of the mechanism, or have I got my understanding of the mechanics the the 861 arse about face? Obviously, if it is only the minute counter that is not resetting, this would be irrelevant but I read it as the entire chrono is not resetting?

No. The part that starts the reset is 093.xxx, the pusher stem for zero action. The very first thing that resets is the hammer on the back side of the movement, which resets both the chronograph seconds recording hand, and the minute recording hand. The pusher stem for zero action moves the stem bolt for hammer (1759) off to one side, allowing the hammer to drop. Here's a video demonstrating this:


You can do this with any 321, 861, 1861, 3861. The reset of the chronograph seconds and minutes is separate from the hour recorder, so as you can see I reset those and the hour recorder had not yet reset. That only happens when you press the pusher deeper to cause the operating lever to push the hammer down on the hour recording wheel.

So if the chronograph minutes and second are not resetting, it has nothing to do with the hour hammer operating lever, because that only comes into play after those have already been reset. Of course the hour hammer operating lever should be replaced if it has a hole in it - that's one of the upgrades Omega considers mandatory. But in tis case if it was actually broken, then the reset wouldn't likely work for the hour recorder at all, but the OP states that it does work sometimes.
 
Delroyb
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Archer Archer
No. The part that starts the reset is 093.xxx, the pusher stem for zero action. The very first thing that resets is the hammer on the back side of the movement, which resets both the chronograph seconds recording hand, and the minute recording hand. The pusher stem for zero action moves the stem bolt for hammer (1759) off to one side, allowing the hammer to drop. Here's a video demonstrating this:


You can do this with any 321, 861, 1861, 3861. The reset of the chronograph seconds and minutes is separate from the hour recorder, so as you can see I reset those and the hour recorder had not yet reset. That only happens when you press the pusher deeper to cause the operating lever to push the hammer down on the hour recording wheel.

So if the chronograph minutes and second are not resetting, it has nothing to do with the hour hammer operating lever, because that only comes into play after those have already been reset. Of course the hour hammer operating lever should be replaced if it has a hole in it - that's one of the upgrades Omega considers mandatory. But in tis case if it was actually broken, then the reset wouldn't likely work for the hour recorder at all, but the OP states that it does work sometimes.


Ah yes, of course! Having a senile moment!
 
K
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Just to clarify, the vendor told me that the hairspring was replaced.

But the whole thing wont go into reset, the seconds counter and the minute counter and probably the hour counter. The chrono stops and starts like it should with the pusher at 2 o'clock but when I try to reset it with the pusher at 4 O'clock (this has happened to me twice on two separate occassions when I have been timing half of a football match at night (45 minutes) the pusher at 4 O'clock does nothing). Both football matches have taken place 12 hours after the watch was fully wound in the morning.

The way I have fixed it is that I have been able to reset the chrono and get it working by winding the winder. So I am trying to work out if it is a recognisable problem with one of the parts.
 
Canuck
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The re-set function using the button at 4:00 should re-set the central sweep seconds hand and the hour and minute subsidiary hands if the chronograph function has been STOPPED using the button at the 2:00 position. The re-set function will not work if the chronograph function is currently operating. It shouldn’t be necessary for me to clarify this fact, but there you have it (just in case.)
 
Dan S
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You have your answer, the watch is not operating correctly, what you are describing is not normal. I think that the speculation is pointless, but even if someone could make an educated guess about exactly what is broken (or inoperable), that wouldn't help you, because you'd still need to take the watch to a professional watchmaker to have it repaired. So I don't see how continuing to describe the symptoms is useful.

If the watch was serviced 5 months ago, you should have a warranty. If you don't have a warranty, you can either live with it as-is, or pay for a repair. After 5 months, I doubt that any seller would take a return.
 
K
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Canuck Canuck
The re-set function using the button at 4:00 should re-set the central sweep seconds hand and the hour and minute subsidiary hands if the chronograph function has been STOPPED using the button at the 2:00 position. The re-set function will not work if the chronograph function is currently operating. It shouldn’t be necessary for me to clarify this fact, but there you have it (just in case.)
Yes, I agree. You cannot depress the reset pusher (at 4 oclock) without stopping the chrono (at 2 oclock).
 
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