Hi All,

New member here. I recently purchased a vintage Speedmaster with a 1450 bracelet that was too small. At the time, I did a lot a of research on the watch head, but very little (about none) on the bracelet. I really wanted the numbered 3592.50 Hesalite sandwich, so all my searching focused on finding that and the bracelet turned out to be a bonus. I realized quickly that I wasn’t going to be able to easily find extra links to size it to my nearly 8” wrist, so I decided to use Uncle Seiko links (post here: https://omegaforums.net/threads/an-experiment-aftermarket-links-on-a-1450-bracelet.147048/). To be honest, this works really well, but I wanted to find vintage 1450 links and that lead to a deep dive into the 1450 details and variants described below. For truth in advertising, I realize that there are likely people on here that know more about this than I do, and I hope they provide/correct any info below, as needed.

If you are going to buy a 1450 bracelet, you can expect to pay probably between $2000-$3000 USD at the time of writing. This is more than many gently used Speedmaster reduced models sell for, so I hope that a dive into the minutia here might be helpful to someone who is after the Holy Grail bracelet or bracelet parts.

If you take a look at my post (https://omegaforums.net/threads/an-experiment-aftermarket-links-on-a-1450-bracelet.147048/) you will notice that the arrows on the US links and the Omega links point in opposite directions. When you look at 1450 items up for sale (links or bracelets) you will find Omega links with arrows pointing both directions also, so I want to “define” some terms. The following two pictures show 1450s with arrows pointed in different directions on the links.

Keeping the clasp so it can be read (not upside down), I will define these links as clockwise (CW):


And these as counterclockwise (CCW):


It is important to note that the links can’t simply be turned over or the clasp turned around to make the CW links point in the same direction as the CCW links and this is because the links are non-superimposable mirror images of each other like your left and right hands. This results from the removable pin always being on the clasp side of the link and the fixed pin on the watch head side. Take a look at the pins in this side-on view:


It is conceivable that these could be reversed, and this would mean you could assemble the link either way, but the fixed pin seems like it is intended to be just that, fixed.

These things said, I needed CCW links, but the Uncle Seiko links are CW:


Unfortunately, I don’t have the Moonwatch Only book, but found this image that clearly shows the 1450 as a CCW 1450.


But this doesn’t seem to be a definitive end. Examination of images of 1450 bracelets and links reveals that there seems to be almost an equal number of CW and CCW 1450s out there:




And finally, in a Watchuseek post from 15 yrs ago discussing the use of extra Omega links (which apparently are produced wider than the clasp so that they can be fit to the bracelet), there is correspondence from Omega stating:

“Well, I exchanged a few emails with Omega, sent photos, and finally received the following response:

It seems that several versions of this bracelet have been produced and that only one type of link has been produced.

Therefore depending on the type of bracelet you have the links must be adapted. Please feel free to contact our representatives in the USA for further assistance:

The Swatch Group (US) Inc.”

So apparently Omega produced more than one type of 1450, and perhaps this accounts for both the CW 1450s and CCW1450s that one might encounter. However, I can only surmise that they mean that only one type of extra link, likely 114ST1450.

Interestingly, few have both CW and CCW links, although this variation can be seen:


Presumably from someone sizing the bracelet with whichever links they could find, much in the same way that I did with the US links.

Here is another image. I suspect that the CW arrow is the extra link, the 114ST1450, and the others are original to the bracelet. Not that the arrow shapes are also different. The CW arrow is much thinner than what I believe to be the original Omega arrows found in most of the pictures in the post. The US links (pictured above) are easily distinguished with the thickest of the arrows seen.


Other Link Pictures:


I guess my questions are:

Am I missing any important facts/information here?
Can someone confirm that the thin arrow links are the 114ST1450?
Aesthetically, should one stick to exclusively CW or CCW links? Does this matter to the community? For some reason, it seems to matter to me…even though only the wearer will see this detail.

After looking at all these things, I would conclude (guess) that both CW 1450s and CCW 1450s have been produced and are equally authentic, but I could be wrong on this. Happy to hear people’s opinions or to see additional data posted.

Sources
Images:
https://www.chrono24.com/omega/brac...k-speedmaster-holy-grail--id24031733.htm#gref

https://www.chrono24.com/omega/brac...50-holy-grail-moon-watch--id23751424.htm#gref

https://www.chrono-shop.net/en/a-r-...let-ssteel-20mm-ref-1450-808-super-rare-.html

https://omegaforums.net/threads/omega-speedmaster-1450-bracelet-with-808-end-links.85564/

https://omegaforums.net/threads/omega-speedmaster-professional-1450-bracelet.68864/

https://www.ebay.com/itm/234396212323Purchases made through these links may earn this site a commission from the eBay Partner Network

https://www.chrono24.com/omega/braceletstrap-speedmaster-1450-bracelet--id24903810.htm

With Moonwatch Book:
https://brusselsvintagewatches.com/en/produit/rare-bracelet-ref-1450-for-vintage-speedmaster/

-Links:
https://omegaforums.net/threads/omega-speedmaster-1450-bracelet-links-nos-3.96974/
https://www.ebay.com/itm/144655762338Purchases made through these links may earn this site a commission from the eBay Partner Network
https://www.chrono-shop.net/en/a-r-...ay-date-profesionnal-holy-grail-3760822-.html

-Discussion on extra links being a little wider:
https://www.watchuseek.com/threads/a-little-note-to-1450-owners-and-fans-update-from-omega.60370/

-Not Shown, but here's a very nice bracelet comparison:
http://www.omega-addict.com/reviews/bracelets/index.html

 

For a brief moment I thought "Hey, all you have to do is take out the rivets and rotate the clasp 180 degrees and you're set!"

Further proof that I am spatially impaired...

 

That’s what I thought at first, followed by- Am I doing something wrong here? I couldn’t find any other info on this, which seems strange as the bracelet is so highly sought after, and therefore expensive. If I spent like $100 per link for extra links, I’d want to at least be aware that they might not match perfectly.

 

Detailed write-up on this one!

Just to contribute a little bit to this new body of knowledge; there's another 1450 for sale at this moment with CCW configuration (link). I've also checked my own, which came with a full set 145.022 CRS ('86), adding another CCW to the count. So far, I'd be inclined to believe that CCW is the most common (i.e. original) variation.

That said, I do believe the Holy Grail I've recently handled had the CW 1450 / 809... Interesting!

 

Could be. Interestingly, it is my understanding that the 809 end links came after the 808s to fit the holy grail case better, so I wonder if it is something like the first 1450s were CCW 1450s and then there was a later production run or runs with CW 1450s.

You don’t see as many 809 end links. I think that every one of the 1450s in my post had 808s. Any idea how common/rare the 809s are?

 

Well, pretty rare. I’ve only see some of the Holy Grails equipped with 809’s and those are very rare watches to begin with…

 

Gotcha. I didn’t know if they were used on any other Speedmasters. I have a set of 809s. Now just need to find a Grail to fit them to!

 

I'd cherish those. Knowing that they could complement a Holy Grail, which is a serious collectors piece, I am sure there must be people interested in those and willing to pay a serious price.

 

Thanks for sharing your research, very interesting.

Mine seems to have the CW links on both sides. I will post pictures later when I get the chance to take a shot.

Can you please elaborate on that? Maybe it's the summer heat or my lack of sleep, but I've read this sentence like a dozen times and I still don't get it .

Are these prices you've observed on closed transactions or mere asking prices. Tbh, I would sell mine immediately at these prices lol. What I observe is the one offered here for €1500 sitting unsold and the one offered on a Swiss auction platt form (see link). I was offered with a reserve price of CHF 1750 and BIN of CHF 1950 for a few weeks and now the seller turned into a non reserve price auction. It'll be interesting to see where it ends. Btw, also a CW / CCW combo.

 

Thanks! I am glad this might help some enthusiasts.

As for the sentence "This results from the removable pin always being on the clasp side of the link and the fixed pin on the watch head side. Take a look at the pins in this side-on view:" let me try to elaborate.

If you look at the removable links side-on, the removable pin is always on the side towards the clasp and the center link always juts out towards the watch head. There are no links where the removable pin is attached on the watch head side- there couldn't be or the links wouldn't fit together. So the left and the right side of the removable link are different and not interchangeable. If you want to move a link from the 6 o'clock side of the bracelet to the 12 o'clock side, the result would be that your CW link would point "down" on the 6 o'clock side and "up" on the 12 o'clock side (when you look at the clasp in the way prescribed by my somewhat arbitrary convention). So if your links are CW and you buy an extra link that is CCW, there is no way to make the CCW link arrow point in the same direction and match the CW arrows you currently own, short of hammering out the fixed pin and reversing things (which I am not sure can be done and would most likely not be recommended). This sort of arrangement is akin to your hands. The CW and CCW links are mirror images of each other and no matter how you turn them, they will always be different from each other (short of the hammering thing). Your hands are the same as they are mirror images of each other, but you know that they are different and not interchangeable (think about a hand shake: RH to RH works but RH to LH is awkward for both of you because hands are not interchangeable) . Hope this helps.

As for prices, good question. It's hard to find out this info. In the time I have been looking, I have never seen one listed for much less than $2000 USD. Two recent sales show up on eBay one for a bracelet at $1800 and one for links at $125. Chrono24 has a couple listed at $3183 and $2248. Not sure how long they take to move and what the end prices are TBH.

Looking forward to seeing some pics!

 

Here my 1450 with arrows on the links pointing down on both sides though the arrows on the left of the clasp are somewhat broader.

What‘s your take?

 

Great write-up. Thanks for doing that.
I would have to disagree on a couple of points with you. I think the going price for these bracelets and end links is around $1,500.
I also think the 1447 with 805 end links should be considered the holy grail of bracelets because it is extremely harder to find than the 1450.

 

Thanks! Not claiming to be an expert, so appreciate the feedback. As for the price, could be. It's hard to find info on what the final prices were, but the list prices are certainly most always higher than $1500 USD. For me, with my wrist size, there is always the link issue. For example, the the one in the forum listed for 1500 Eur is too short. I would need 3-4 additional links which presents a sourcing problem, but also adds cost. In any case, the prices will change as the market for shifts. No prediction on higher or lower here. Could be reasons to think it might go either way.

In regard to the Grail Bracelet- Agreed. I was not trying to indicate that this is the hardest bracelet to find, but I think people will recognize the 1450 as the Holy Grail Bracelet because it is the bracelet needed for the 376.0822 Holy Grail.

Do you think the 1447/805 is the most difficult bracelet to source? I don't know much about it, so maybe that is a good start for another deep dive for me. As a new member, it's really amazing just how many different types of everything there are and how much the production shifted around as time passed.

Thanks again for your input!

 

Thanks for sharing the pic! I was actually wondering if I would see this link arrangement (all arrows on one side). So you have a mix of CW and CCW links. I don't know how the links are made, but if the arrows are stamped into the steel, it looks like the arrows on the CW links are shallower than the CCW links. Is that actually the case, or does it result from the lighting? I'm guessing that the links are not all original to the bracelet, because they would likely have the same CW/CCW orientation and appearance. Did you size it or get it like this? Can you post a side-on pic?

 

I think this is a great example of how deep the dive can go on this sort of topic.

Personally, I wear one of the US 1450 clones on my Speedy, along with one of the 1162/173 clasps, and it scratches my 1450 bracelet itch.

 

Thank You! Do you like the US 1450? I bought some links (shown above) but have never held a full bracelet. I think they look great and would image that they feel great too. What are you impressions?

 

I do! The edges of the links are a bit sharp when handling the bracelet but it doesn't bother me when wearing it at all. Replacing the clasp completed the look for me and I haven't felt the need to switch back to a strap in a long time.

 

Indeed. Here's one for $3,135, no "best offer" option: 1980s Original Omega 1450 Bracelet Band 808 Endlink Speedmaster Holy Grail | eBayPurchases made through these links may earn this site a commission from the eBay Partner Network

 

US did a great job on that bracelet. I had to take mine off and look at the underside to tell which links were US and which were Omega (I've since replaced the US links). I am not sure if you've seen these posts, but US sourced some of the research to the forum:
https://omegaforums.net/threads/need-input-for-speedmaster-bracelet-design.100804/ and here's a side-by-side:
https://omegaforums.net/threads/forstner-vs-uncle-seiko-1450-for-speedmaster.141007/#post-1924136. Thanks to
Scarecrow Boat for sending me the links to those posts.

 

Someone reported to me that they have a bracelet with removable links that don't have the arrows engraved on these removable links. Has anyone ever see/authenticated a bracelet with "no-arrow" links?.