Speedmaster 105002-62 Value

[heller792]

Morning, As my previous post, we came across an old watch that had been lying around the house for 20 years following my Father in Laws death, to cut a long story short, we gave it to our son not knowing its value. The watch has recently been serviced by Simon Freese.

My question is, my son does not wear watches so it currently lives in a box, could I ask your opinions please as to is it worth more to keep it for 40 years or sell it and put the money into a long term investment for my son such as a stocks an shares ISA, basically, is the value going to grow much over the next 40 years or sell as above?

Could someone give me a basic rough idea of what its worth?

Many thanks in advance
Dave

 

[STANDY]

Have to look up Speedmaster 101 price guide

 

[Dash1]

That’s a tough question! My guess is that the watch certainly will be worth more in 40 years than it is now. The stocks and share ISA is also likely to be worth more in 40 years, but which one will have the greatest value? Nobody can say.
In the U.K. watches are free of capital gains tax, but then so is an ISA I believe.
If your son really isn’t into the watch, then perhaps the ISA is the way to go, at least he doesn’t have to spend 40 years looking after the watch and worrying about it getting stolen etc…
As to value today…. The market has cooled a bit and the watch is in (how can I put it) ‘honest’ condition. However it is a rare reference and has the benefit of the SF service. Maybe £8k to £9k Stirling? That’s only a very rough guess.

 

[heller792]

Thanks, just looking at what to do for my sons best interests, I hadn't thought about the worry of loosing or breaking it as he's currently only 19 years old and pretty useless at looking after anything ha.

 

[Davidt]

From a monetary perspective, I’d sell it and put the money into an ISA.

However, it’s a family heirloom and once it’s gone it’s gone.

 

[gbesq]

A stock mutual fund is likely to do much better as an investment over four decades than the watch. The watch will also require periodic maintenance during that period even if worn only sporadically. As Dash1 notes, although the watch is a rare reference it is in "honest" condition (i.e., there are better examples, but they are very difficult to find). If you don't mind losing it as a family heirloom and want to focus only on the long term monetary value, I would sell it and invest the proceeds. That beiing said, I would wait for awhile until the market for vintage watches improves. It's a bit soft right now and you are unlikely to obtain a top price at this time.

 

[heller792]

gbesq

A stock mutual fund is likely to do much better as an investment over four decades than the watch. The watch will also require periodic maintenance during that period even if worn only sporadically. As Dash1 notes, although the watch is a rare reference it is in "honest" condition (i.e., there are better examples, but they are very difficult to find). If you don't mind losing it as a family heirloom and want to focus only on the long term monetary value, I would sell it and invest the proceeds. That beiing said, I would wait for awhile until the market for vintage watches improves. It's a bit soft right now and you are unlikely to obtain a top price at this time.

Thank you, I am in no rush to sell it so waiting for the market to improve would be a good idea.

 

[bananapeanut]

No guarantee the watch will go up in value over the next 40 years. Its condition will most likely deteriorate further. Hand corrosion is just getting started and the lume won't look any better etc.

To help you with your decision, you can turn things around. Let's say your father-in-law sold the watch for £9k before passing and left you the money instead of the watch. If given the opportunity, would you then use the cash to buy back the watch thinking it would be a good investment for your son?

 

[heller792]

bananapeanut

No guarantee the watch will go up in value over the next 40 years. Its condition will most likely deteriorate further. Hand corrosion is just getting started and the lume won't look any better etc.

To help you with your decision, you can turn things around. Let's say your father-in-law sold the watch for £9k before passing and left you the money instead of the watch. If given the opportunity, would you then use the cash to buy back the watch thinking it would be a good investment for your son?

No i wouldn't, my son never knew his granddad and as much as i love the idea of it being still in the family i'm just trying to balance the reality of looking after it for the next 40 years, my son didn't even want to have it serviced so I paid for it (he's only 19 and doesn't really understand the value of watches). My wife doesn't mind what happens with her fathers watch as long as its in the best interests of our son.

 

[Dan S]

Given the condition of the watch, it's not really a collectible example, so it will never command the highest level of value. Unfortunately, lesser examples do not appreciate at the same rate as top-notch examples and they're not easy to sell.

Nobody knows how the market with evolve in the future, but from a purely financial perspective, I would be inclined to go with the stock market.

You asked for an approximate value. It's hard to put a value on a watch in that condition, the best I could do is give a large range. Currently, I think it would sell easily for $5k; at that price, someone would enjoy wearing the watch. But I don't think you could get close to $10k for it. In an auction, again it might sell for $7k-$8k and you might net $5k-$6k.

Edited: Aug 27, 2023

 

[Spacefruit]

A wonderful example of a correct, but low quality watch.

@Dan S put it so well - no one will compete to buy at 10k

Many people will at 5k

I think what has happened is that we have lost the group of "greater fools" that the flippers have been selling to.

I have happily bought several calibre 321 speedmasters for under 5k, that would have been 10k+ two years ago.

So I love the crash.

 

[spacemission]

Yo me lo guiso, yo me lo como.

Some members dixit.

 

[moorey]

It looks a bit grubby for a recently serviced watch. Try Sterling Vault Auctions they are still getting good money for interesting watches.

 

[Spacefruit]

M moorey

It looks a bit grubby for a recently serviced watch. Try Sterling Vault Auctions they are still getting good money for interesting watches.

It is the state of the hands that is giving that initial grubby feel. This would be a very easy fix, but one I think I might regret doing if it was my watch.

We have to balance the end result with what we have now. And repaired hands will stand out like a sore thumb if not done right. The problem is the lume markers are ugly and unattractive, and without a relume always will be ugly. Changing the hands is very risky, aesthetically.

So we could value it as a restored project - a relumed, re handed 105002 ? (That's an even thinner market!) But we still have the terrible bezel and the polished case.

For me, this watch is best left as is, especially if I felt the hands dial bezel and case all stayed together from new. Which it does look like they are.

In fact, he single biggest asset this watch has, is its apparent originality and honesty. If we start painting hands, and this originality gets lost, then like some plastic surgery victims, where does it end?

Auction might be an answer, but this reference has a very slim following - so the secondary part of the attraction, price, comes into play.

Do I think Sterling could get this to 10k? Honestly, I wonder if they might value it there, but they might demand a lower reserve. and then charge 20% commission, (not bad as it goes) but there is always a risk of no interest on the day. After all, this is not a Rolex, and the market is very thin for 002's for strong money. If I had to speculate, I would say they might want to estimate £6,000 - £8,000, but it might fail to sell. Or they might persuade the seller, (rightly in my opinion) to reserve it at £4000 and estimate £4,000 to £6000 and hope sparks fly. Which brings us neatly back to our consensus value of around 5k+.

I cannot understate how prices for low quality speedmasters have come down.

Short answer, at £5,000 you are not getting ripped off.
If someone offers £10,000 grab the cash and run as fast as you can.

 

[donkey388]

Where is everyone finding 105.003/105.002/05.012 watches for £5,000-£8,000 in the UK?

I’ve been monitoring eBay for a while but most of them are out of the UK which adds a 20% tax

 

[hansaboy]

Even if it’s a 65…
😀
https://omegaforums.net/threads/speedmaster-105-003-65-at-an-auction-yesterday.157078/

 

[M'Bob]

Aesthetically, my eye gets immediately drawn to the chrono hand, which appears much worse than the hour and minute hands. I would try and find a beat up chrono hand that is commensurate with the other two; it might perk things up considerably.

Edited: Aug 28, 2023

 

[Spacefruit]

D donkey388

Where is everyone finding 105.003/105.002/05.012 watches for £5,000-£8,000 in the UK?

I’ve been monitoring eBay for a while but most of them are out of the UK which adds a 20% tax

Finding a watch and finding a buyer are two very different numbers

 

[Davidt]

H heller792

Thank you, I am in no rush to sell it so waiting for the market to improve would be a good idea.

D donkey388

Where is everyone finding 105.003/105.002/05.012 watches for £5,000-£8,000 in the UK?

I’ve been monitoring eBay for a while but most of them are out of the UK which adds a 20% tax

Obviously there’s a spread between list price and sale price, even more so at the minute.
Many watches, particularly Speedmasters are simply priced too high and sit for sale for long periods right now.

 

[Davidt]

105.012 with bracelet, but sans bezel sold for £4200 + duties
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/23511067...aMjpz0rSAy&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

another for £4900 + duties
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/23506415...aMjpz0rSAy&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

145.012 with bracelet sold for £4900 + duties
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/20438650...aMjpz0rSAy&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

Another for £4500
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/20438650...aMjpz0rSAy&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

Several of the above or similar sales also result in the watch being relisted. I’d assume this is because the seller didn’t achieve the price they wanted in some cases.
Anyway, if you compare the above to asking prices for similar watches, it’s clear there’s a disparity