Speedmaster 105.003 Ed White

[Elipside]

Hi all,

Browsing the private sale section here (as always), I started to get interested in Speedmasters. I like the straight lugs design so I started to search for the First Omega In Space ones, and then I came across a 105.003 from 65 (which I believe is the same as Ed White worn in space) on an auction website.

It's in rough shape with scratches everywhere (+ quite a lot on the bezel) t's got a big engraving on the side which I kinda like but otherwise it's looks genuine to me and I consider bidding.

Here are the photos:



Do you see anything wrong with the watch other than this?
I guess it will all come down to the price, we'll see when the auction starts.

A few things I've noticed:
- lume on the chrono hand is either gone or has been replaced. I don't like that it's not matching the patina everywhere else. Potentially re lume required? But I'm worried this would reduce the value of watch?
- something's wrong with the end link, it's not following the shape of the lug, but it might just be in the wrong position?
- can the crystal be polished or does it need replacing? I would service the watch so would get everything done at the same time, assuming a NOS crystal can be sourced.

Also, no pictures of the movement, all they say is that is runs, but a service is probably required.

Thanks for you advice.

Jerome

Edited: Aug 3, 2022

 

[buddman]

Looks very tired, been through the wars. Insert damaged ( big chip @TACHYMETRE), bezel dented in the side (@75) and too bad the case has been vandalised with that engraving! I’m not a fan of engraving but at least on caseback there is an opportunity to do something about it, and you don’t see it when you’re wearing it. Here it’s killed the watch ( unless Mr Harrison went to space) . I’d wait for a better example unless you’re just wanting a daily beater, or luckily enough to have replacement case parts ( which are all very rare and expensive). A new crystal is the least expensive of the problems.

 

[perenowell]

Hi!

Bezel is original, its condition isn’t the problem here.
the dial has seen some humidity and not very beautiful.
The hands look badly repainted, not beautiful at all. The crown is a service one.
The endlinks look genuine, as the bracelet.
About the case, the 105.003-65 has bevels. So it’s either overpolished or the wrong reference. You should asked for a serial and a picture of the movement.

about the value, the condition of the dial and hands has a big impact on it. You should add to your budget a service and the price for a relume too.

But at the end, it’s all about the price…

 

[padders]

perenowell

Hi!

Bezel is original, its condition isn’t the problem here.
the dial has seen some humidity and not very beautiful.
The hands look badly repainted, not beautiful at all. The crown is a service one.
The endlinks look genuine, as the bracelet.
about the case, the 105.003-65 has bevels. So it’s either overpolished or the wrong reference. You should asked for a serial and a picture of the movement.

about the price, the condition of the dial and hands has a big impact on it. You should add to your budget a service and the price for a relume too.

at the end, it’s all about the price.

Its not a -65, its a 105.003-64, those were made up until early 1966 AFAIK so the engraving date makes sense. As you say, note the lack of lug bevels. To be fair the OP said it was from 1965, not that it was a -65. As he suggests, this was indeed the very model worn by EW on his walk. Not a very nice example though it must be said!

Edited: Aug 3, 2022

 

[perenowell]

I read too fast, i though it was a -65.
But Ed White wore -63 for what i remember?

 

[padders]

perenowell

I read too fast, i though it was a -65.
But Ed White wore -63 for what i remember?

Yep you are right. I always mix it up despite having discussed it many times before. I have a -65 so have less of an interest in the exact model than those that own them presumably! Here is some fairly definitive info:

https://www.fratellowatches.com/why-ed-white-wore-two-speedmaster-105-003-watches/#gref

 

[Elipside]

I've been looking at pictures of 64s and 65s but the bevel is not too obvious. So do you reckon it's a 64 with no bevel or an overpolished 65?
They won't open the case back, just got they reply, so it's another problem.

perenowell

The hands look badly repainted, not beautiful at all.

Repainted? You mean the whole hands or the relume?

 

[Dan S]

If you don't mind the color of the lume on the dial, then go for it.

 

[perenowell]

Elipside

I've been looking at pictures of 64s and 65s but the bevel is not too obvious. So do you reckon it's a 64 with no bevel or an overpolished 65?
They won't open the case back, just got they reply, so it's another problem.



Repainted? You mean the whole hands or the relume?

The hands look very white, but above all, the lume on the sweep hand is recovered by paint. So i would say that the hands have been entirely repainted.
But with a relume (or if you buy a set of vintage hands) and if the price is good, it could be a nice Ed White to wear without stress!

 

[buddman]

You have to love auction houses that refuse to open a caseback. They have whole watch sections but then say they don’t have the competence ( or tool) to unscrew a case. It’s all about limiting their liability when something ends up being wrong.

 

[Elipside]

buddman

You have to love auction houses that refuse to open a caseback. They have whole watch sections but then say they don’t have the competence ( or tool) to unscrew a case. It’s all about limiting their liability when something ends up being wrong.

I think you are totally right, they probably think they won't gain much by opening the caseback other than the risk of people finding out there's an issue and not bidding.
So to me it's just a risk to factor in when bidding, but it looks like many people don't know/don't care and bid like if it's a perfect watch.
I've seen some Connies with redial, no movement pictures go for crazy prices 😕

 

[Elipside]

perenowell

The hands look very white, but above all, the lume on the sweep hand is recovered by paint. So i would say that the hands have been entirely repainted.
But with a relume (or if you buy a set of vintage hands) and if the price is good, it could be a nice Ed White to wear without stress!

Well spotted, now that you mention it the sweep hand does not have the same colour as the other hands, and that explains the white lume. Who does this sort of things 🤨

 

[buddman]

Elipside

I think you are totally right, they probably think they won't gain much by opening the caseback other than the risk of people finding out there's an issue and not bidding.
So to me it's just a risk to factor in when bidding, but it looks like many people don't know/don't care and bid like if it's a perfect watch.
I've seen some Connies with redial, no movement pictures go for crazy prices 😕

and that’s why they don’t bother! Chances are the movement is correct, but always a chance of sloppy work given you know other work has been done on it. If I was a betting man I’d say it’s probably correct - your risk will be rust given the lume color.

 

[Scarecrow Boat]

Whatever you bid, just be mindful of the 35.94% premium

 

[Elipside]

Scarecrow Boat

Whatever you bid, just be mindful of the 35.94% premium

Yep, that's a lot of money on this kind of watch.
I need to factor all of the above in my bid but I am sure bids will go crazy

 

[Elipside]

Thanks all for your comments, I would not have picked up half of the issues. Now I can make educated choices 😀

 

[buddman]

Elipside

Yep, that's a lot of money on this kind of watch.
I need to factor all of the above in my bid but I am sure bids will go crazy

Sad state of affairs if a watch in that condition sells for a lot. Have you looked around for what you could buy a similar piece for, but serviced and running?

 

[Davidt]

Given the condition issues I’ll suggest this watch, even with bracelet will sell for around £7500-8000 Inc fees, so around $9000-9500. The market is soft at the minute.

Whether this is down to summer lull or wider reaching reduction in consumer spending is up for debate (I think the latter).

 

[buddman]

Might. The case engraving kind of kills it though.

 

[Davidt]

buddman

Might. The case engraving kind of kills it though.

I didn’t even notice the engraving on the side of the case when I glanced at the OP. Agree that might push the price down further