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Something that has been bugging me for a few years now

P
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STANDY STANDY
You are a noob you have posted 168 posts in 11 days but still a Noob 馃槤
I am an Omega noob.
 
Shem
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I find that the very finest watches are entirely in-house.

In my house, that is.

馃槑
 
Archer
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P PatrickJ
This is one for members and Mr Archer in particular.

There has been a post by myself before regarding if my Omega Geneve is a redial. At first it had appeared it was a redial, then members had not been sure due to other examples on the net of geneve dials looking exactly like mine.

What do you think Mr Archer?

Below is a link to the previous thread where regarding my delema also stefan the other watchmaker on the forum initialy thought it was a redial. However, have sent him a link to the previous thread for him to look at.

https://omegaforums.net/threads/any-ideas.23649/

Also a link below to a similar watch sold by austin kaye, it is not stated as a redial. They always in their adverts state if a watch is a redial or not. It looks just like my dial.

http://austinkaye.co.uk/vintage-omega-geneve-manual?back=

Thank you

Patrick Paul J

I'll answer your question, but sorry it probably won't be the answer you want...

First the short answer:

The other members here who have spent hundreds of hours researching dial variations of very specific models are the experts on this subject matter. If they have given you the benefit of all their research and experience looking at tens of thousands of dials, and have commented on the dial in question, then you already have the best opinions available on this site.

Now the longer answer with some explanation:

Quite honestly, I don't have time to do the sort of research that the collectors here do, and since a question I get today might be related to a modern watch, tomorrow morning it will be about a vintage Speedmaster, and tomorrow afternoon a vintage watch like yours, etc. it's impossible for me or anyone to be an expert in all of these with regards to originality of dials, hands, crowns, etc.. You will notice given enough time here that specific members are experts in specific watches, but I don't think anyone here knows everything about all the Omega models. Some are experts in Constellations, some in 30 mm movement watches, some in art deco watches, some in Speedmasters, etc. Omega is a brand with a lot of ground to cover to put I mildly.

My expertise is as a watchmaker, so a question regarding problems with movements, parts, what's involved with a service, etc. are what I am good at, so that is what I stick to. When I am repairing a watch for someone, if the dial is original or not is actually mostly irrelevant to the work I have to perform. When someone PM's me about the originality of a dial for example, I almost always refer them to the forum for more information, since the guys on here are the experts in this area.

It might not answer your question directly, but it should allow you to understand how the forum works with regards to questions like yours.

Cheers, Al
 
gatorcpa
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All the posts here, and only a few that answered the question at hand. The best of them:
U ulackfocus
Another nit to pick: They do outsource a handful of small parts. Only Seiko, who even makes their own screws and oils, are COMPLETELY in-house.

I believe that the reason for this lies more in the differences between the Asian and Swiss ways of doing business. The Swiss watch industries started out by being a collection of Swiss farmers looking for something to do in the winter. They eventually organized into collectives and later into corporations. They were always somewhat inbred, with people with the same surnames being involved with many of the older companies. The giant waves of consolidation in the Swiss watch industry really has only happened in the last 50 years. These Swiss factories change hands like vintage watches.

How does Bulgari build a brand? They buy two functioning watch factories and put their name on the finished products.
This would be unheard of at any large Asian company, like Seiko, Citizen or even Hyundai

The Asian companies tend to be set up to be vertically integrated from day one. When Seiko wants to expand capacity in a particular area, they custom build a new factory from the ground up for a specific purpose, rather than buy a older factory from a competitor or supplier.

Hope this helps,
gatorcpa
Edited:
 
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Farmers? Didn't know that. Would think this is quite specialized work for a winter hobby. So a lot of the Swiss brands are there because of tax reasons more than anything else. Rolex certainly is a good example as it was originally a British brand. The Swiss created the better conditions for business, and then once the industry is rolling it is just a matter of convineance to keep the industry located there.
 
dsio
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Btw when Gator says they were inbred, he's talking in the corporate sense, rather than the Lannister sense.
 
gatorcpa
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Nobel Prize Nobel Prize
The Swiss created the better conditions for business, and then once the industry is rolling it is just a matter of convineance to keep the industry located there.

The fact that most of the world's watch parts suppliers were there had nothing to do with it? 馃槈 Even the old American companies that marked movements "USA" bought a lot of the parts in from Switzerland.

dsio dsio
Btw when Gator says they were inbred, he's talking in the corporate sense, rather than the Lannister sense.

馃う

gatorcpa
 
MikiJ
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U ulackfocus
Another nit to pick: They do outsource a handful of small parts. Only Seiko, who even makes their own screws and oils, are COMPLETELY in-house.
Maybe it's just another "Senior Moment" but I was under the impression that Lange manufactured their own parts, including the screws.
However, with Seiko making their own oils, is way over the top!
 
gatorcpa
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MikiJ MikiJ
Maybe it's just another "Senior Moment" but I was under the impression that Lange manufactured their own parts, including the screws.
However, with Seiko making their own oils, is way over the top!
Hamilton used to do this many years ago.

However, they still sourced some dials, hands and other parts from Switzerland.
gatorcpa
 
MikiJ
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gatorcpa gatorcpa
However, they still sourced some dials, hands and other parts from Switzerland.
gatorcpa
Meaning that Lange is sourcing some dials, hands, etc.?
 
P
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Archer Archer
I'll answer your question, but sorry it probably won't be the answer you want...

First the short answer:

The other members here who have spent hundreds of hours researching dial variations of very specific models are the experts on this subject matter. If they have given you the benefit of all their research and experience looking at tens of thousands of dials, and have commented on the dial in question, then you already have the best opinions available on this site.

Now the longer answer with some explanation:

Quite honestly, I don't have time to do the sort of research that the collectors here do, and since a question I get today might be related to a modern watch, tomorrow morning it will be about a vintage Speedmaster, and tomorrow afternoon a vintage watch like yours, etc. it's impossible for me or anyone to be an expert in all of these with regards to originality of dials, hands, crowns, etc.. You will notice given enough time here that specific members are experts in specific watches, but I don't think anyone here knows everything about all the Omega models. Some are experts in Constellations, some in 30 mm movement watches, some in art deco watches, some in Speedmasters, etc. Omega is a brand with a lot of ground to cover to put I mildly.

My expertise is as a watchmaker, so a question regarding problems with movements, parts, what's involved with a service, etc. are what I am good at, so that is what I stick to. When I am repairing a watch for someone, if the dial is original or not is actually mostly irrelevant to the work I have to perform. When someone PM's me about the originality of a dial for example, I almost always refer them to the forum for more information, since the guys on here are the experts in this area.

It might not answer your question directly, but it should allow you to understand how the forum works with regards to questions like yours.

Cheers, Al
Thank you, that answer makes sense.
 
P
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And I thought I paid attention to detail as to how these watches are made. You guys have knowledge that is beyond my imagination.
 
z1109r
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馃嵖馃摉馃嵖馃摉::rimshot::Keep the wisdom flowing, gents!
 
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gatorcpa gatorcpa
The fact that most of the world's watch parts suppliers were there had nothing to do with it? 馃槈 Even the old American companies that marked movements "USA" bought a lot of the parts in from Switzerland.

Of course, but I think the fiscal benefits where as relevant...It's not like you can't make great watches outside of Switzerland.
 
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MikiJ MikiJ
Maybe it's just another "Senior Moment" but I was under the impression that Lange manufactured their own parts, including the screws.
However, with Seiko making their own oils, is way over the top!

By the way, based on this thread I stopped by Seiko in midtown today to take a look at their lines with a little more sense of respect...馃槈
 
z1109r
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Watches being luxury items + Swiss way of banking = Good business prospects, right?
 
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I would just like to make an apology to the group. I know you guys have already given me your opinions on my Geneve and Seamaster, much appreciated with your efforts.

The reason I paniced and sent put the question again was that the Geneve was about to go in for a service. It was not with Mr Archer or if I may call you Al. It was with another experienced watch maker on the forum. I refered him to the post, re the redial issue (any ideas?) He came back and said the Geneve was a redial. I am not sure if he read the whole thread. Sent him another email back mentioning that many members thought it was a redial at first but after finding pics on the net of them dials looking just like mine there had been doubt. Even one member suggested I should not worry about it.

Servicing these watches can be costly, and did not want to service a re dialed watch.

Regarding the Seamaster you guys gave me your opinion on it already regarding the hands and the dial. I panicked when I could see mine had the hook S instead of smooth S. Mine is from 1962. But when you put ref 14759 it brought up 1960 on Omega vintage site and the S being smooth and not hook S.

It is just the cost of the service I think and the possibility the watches were not good. I need to stop thinking to much maybe, suppose these watches are very old variations and questions on dials being 100% right will happen. Perhaps none of us know for sure 100% and perhaps only 99%, these things were made so long ago

Thanks
 
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z1109r z1109r
Watches being luxury items + Swiss way of banking = Good business prospects, right?

I'd say!!! very good business indeed!!!!
 
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