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Some Lemania Chronographs and a warning!

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JimJupiter
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A word of warning.
My white dial Lemania with Cal. 15TL went to a dealer who, ....well....looks like modified it a bit? The watch I gave away was clearly a redial, which I stated to everyone of course. Now this watch is for sale with a dial that looks like my redial on first view, but aged 70 years.

https://watchlegend.com/store/en/home/231-lemania-15tl-omega-333-oversized-vintage-chronograph.html

Dials in Comparison:


Seller asked me to delete the pics.

My question to the Lemania experts is: Is this dial legit, or does someone modified my redial? Back when I researched my watch, I couldn't find a similar dial. All the numbers are at the exact same position, but the the tachy scale for example appears blueish.

How do I know It's my old watch you may ask? Well have a look at the other side of the watch:

Seller asked me to delete the pics.

My watch had the serial 16326, the one from the dealer is 1632? ( cant read the last number). But you also see exact markings and scratches on screws, pushers and lugs.

What are your thoughts, cause I am a bit confused if someone just changed a dial or if someone is cheating? By the way I sold the watch on December 6th and delivered on December 16th. Maybe I am just paranoid 😉


Cheers Nico
Edited:
 
JimJupiter
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Side note: I shiped the watch to Poland, but the seller is from Switzerland.

Edit: Seller has a Polish office too.
Edited:
 
eugeneandresson
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Thats funny...I saw that watch on IG and thought ... aha ... a second one ... must not be a redial. But that is some mighty nefarious BS right there. I wonder what the cost is (edit : 4100CHF!)...and he most likely did not service the movement.

@JimJupiter Funny thing is, in your pictures, nothing looks blue in the text/printing ... but on his it looks like blue printing. Could he have had a second dial and swapped it, or are you convinced this is your old dial doctored?
Edited:
 
JimJupiter
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eugeneandresson eugeneandresson
Thats funny...I saw that watch on IG and thought ... aha ... a second one ... must not be a redial. But that is some mighty nefarious BS right there. I wonder what the cost is...and he most likely did not service the movement.

@JimJupiter Funny thing is, in your pictures, nothing looks blue in the text/printing ... but on his it looks like blue printing. Could he have had a second dial and swapped it, or are you convinced this is your old dial doctored?

Thats what I ask the experts. But except for the blue lines and aging...it looks like the exact same dial for me! We know there are good artists in Poland. Two weeks of time is really fast! Maybe this is some kind of baking and the print went blue, I dont know!
 
eugeneandresson
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JimJupiter JimJupiter
Thats what I ask the experts. But except for the blue lines and aging...it looks like the exact same dial for me! We know there are good artists in Poland. Two weeks of time is really fast! Maybe this is some kind of baking and the print went blue, I dont know!

And you think the edge was 'erased' from round 4 ~ 6 (as it looks like some of the text and lines have vanished)?

I'll through down my non-expert-2c speculative-opinion (with a sprinkle of Occams Razor) : this guy had a watch like this, bought yours, swapped the 'better dial' with the 'better other parts' and is now trying to flog this at a nice little profit.

PS: would be keen to know (for interests sake) why you originally thought it a redial (or still do). Also recently bought a 'piece unique dialed' lemania and too was sceptical...but I don't think its a redial (don't want to hijack this thread!).
 
JimJupiter
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Find me a third one with that dial and you maybe get me 😉 At the moment, I see the exact dial. Also the "Swiss" I found on "my" dia. I showed some close ups to @Northernman and we agreed, its not genuine. The guy I got the watches from restored many of them to "new beauty".

here is a closeup:

DSC07330.JPG
 
w154
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I was just looking for any flaws on your dial but there’s nothing obvious. The 4 o’clock numeral looks a bit thick in the middle, and “maybe” that’s the same on the dealers dial ? Pretty hard to tell though.
 
eugeneandresson
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If that is an artifically aged dial, its fantastic.

w154 w154
The 4 o’clock numeral looks a bit thick in the middle, and “maybe” that’s the same on the dealers dial ? Pretty hard to tell though.

The 5 on the dealers dial looks a bit thick too...

Also, the chrono hand is slightly different.
 
JimJupiter
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w154 w154
3FB1970B-F9D8-4949-86E3-044EA14C9B8C.jpeg

Thanks Dave, with good will we can see the imperfections.

To turn it around. If my dial wasnt a redial, why change it for one in way worse state? 😉
 
eugeneandresson
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JimJupiter JimJupiter
To turn it around. If my dial wasnt a redial, why change it for one in way worse state? 😉

To pimp up your better watch (And make money in the process)? Why would they change e.g. the chronograph hand as well? (Don't get me wrong, anything is still possible...maybe this guy is trying to confuse us 😀 ).

w154 w154
3FB1970B-F9D8-4949-86E3-044EA14C9B8C.jpeg

Great comparison ... could you do the same for the 5 please 😀

Edit: still open to theories as to how the black text turned blue (unless it was blue to begin with).
Edited:
 
JimJupiter
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eugeneandresson eugeneandresson
To pimp up your better watch (And make money in the process)? Why would they change e.g. the chronograph hand as well? (Don't get me wrong, anything is still possible...maybe this guy is trying to confuse us 😀 ).

The second hand was relativly lose from the beginning. My watchmaker fixed it as good as he could. @kov knows what I am speaking of 😉 Also the "new" hand suits better.

Regarding the "black to blue" problem I don't have an answer either. Side effect of baking? like when hands were blued, or when you do a burnish?
 
eugeneandresson
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JimJupiter JimJupiter
Regarding the "black to blue" problem I don't have an answer either.

Only theory I can come up with is Orchi's theory for everything :

index.jpg oil-pouring-out-of-yellow-barrel_104140919-1280x640.jpg
 
kov
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So the seller is on the Forums? Would be interested to know who’s behind WatchLegend. Moutier is a small village...
 

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