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SM 165.024-63 - “hallmark” and thoughts

khanmu
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I know, I know, check first and then buy.... but sometimes in the moment I think you have to take a chance and trust in the “infrastructure” (PayPal, eBay, credit card company) to back you up, and to be fair to Amex they always have..

Anyway - two questions to our experts here on a recently acquired 165.024-63

1. Hallmark

When changing the strap, I saw this little mark between the upper lugs. Has anyone else seen one or know what it is?

20DC0AD2-EEE3-47B7-9E1B-07A6878D9AB5.jpeg


2. Any general thoughts on the watch l? My assessment was:

- Serial nos in the right range
- Not the first thin font bezel, but the one fitted came out in 1964 so probably within tolerances
- correct crystal with omega logo
- crown - correct type but maybe a service one - should it have the “Mercedes” symbol in the middle?
- hour and minute hand probably relumed at some point
- dial looks nice - gilt I think and no “T”s - could possibly be a relume but nicely done if so
- double bevel caseback

Photos below - and I’d welcome any comments or thoughts - extract ordered so will post the details when it arrives.

Thanks in advance

7A78CF6A-2C5E-4C5E-B3A2-09F07C3138E4.jpeg C2519CB4-3499-4E0C-8370-FBBF7146DA78.jpeg 38326967-7E7A-4840-B157-F6E0E2B70C0F.jpeg 1DFE3175-3310-4338-B53F-1B587F778A17.jpeg D45FAD38-C566-4F20-BA1A-104E97944790.jpeg BA5F6FA9-3CD2-41FC-B05B-7757BE0AF711.jpeg 023BCB43-27A5-4036-B2E0-E99C3F2B7736.jpeg 4A1A89A8-57D9-4F5E-BF58-0E91933ED783.jpeg
 
733E33AA-C7CC-4710-A427-7F72464B3D53.jpeg
Cuttysark
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Really nice watch!
Never seen the hallmark you posted..
The tritium on the dial seems to be original.
The dial is good for the reference. Gilt numbers and no Ts.
The original crown would be without Mercedes. It's easy and not so expensive to find an original one. Check on Ebay.
I attach a pic of the original crown.
The second hand is correct for the early reference. This type of hand was on some 14755s, on all 165014 and the early (until 24 mil. circa) 165.024s.
Maybe the hour and minute hands relumed? I'm not sure.. I've seen on some Seamaster 300 the different color beetween hands and dial. And they were not relumed. You need a UV lamp to tell if the eventual relume was done in recent time with glowing paste.
Nice case. Looks unpolished and in very good conditions.
https://omegaforums.net/data/attachments/893/893759-76b249b6941fa4daae671d3a16507d2b.jpg
 
khanmu
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Cuttysark Cuttysark
Really nice watch!
Never seen the hallmark you posted..
The tritium on the dial seems to be original.
The dial is good for the reference. Gilt numbers and no Ts.
The original crown would be without Mercedes. It's easy and not so expensive to find an original one. Check on Ebay.
I attach a pic of the original crown.
The second hand is correct for the early reference. This type of hand was on some 14755s, on all 165014 and the early (until 24 mil. circa) 165.024s.
Maybe the hour and minute hands relumed? I'm not sure.. I've seen on some Seamaster 300 the different color beetween hands and dial. And they were not relumed. You need a UV lamp to tell if the eventual relume was done in recent time with glowing paste.
Nice case. Looks unpolished and in very good conditions.
https://omegaforums.net/data/attachments/893/893759-76b249b6941fa4daae671d3a16507d2b.jpg

Thank you - that’s really helpful. The seller said the watch had been in a drawer for a number of years and hadn’t been touched in a while - the photo shows some gasket melt. So I suspect the hour and minute hand were relumed in the past and the crown changed. I’ll look for an original crown and ask my watchmaker to fit one when he services the watch.
 
JanV
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This 165024-63 reference is really an interesting one indeed. I’ve seen a lot of these (at least 4 pieces) -63’s with this bezel but without gilt numbers, with T Swiss Made T markings, with 165024-63 markings inside the case back, and with 22.9xx and 23.000 serials and confirmed eoa’s for 165024. So somehow this reference has been made in at least two batches, with some time in between. Anyone else here knowing anything about this? Mine says hi.

Btw, are the hands on OP’s watch straight without curvature, can’t really tell so good from these pictures. If so, they could be service ones from the seventies, at maybe the same era when this greenish lume started popping up on the military dials?
 
481516CF-E232-4BC3-B13A-CED37E4D5575.jpeg
khanmu
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JanV JanV
This 165024-63 reference is really an interesting one indeed. I’ve seen a lot of these (at least 4 pieces) -63’s with this bezel but without gilt numbers, with T Swiss Made T markings, with 165024-63 markings inside the case back, and with 22.9xx and 23.000 serials and confirmed eoa’s for 165024. So somehow this reference has been made in at least two batches, with some time in between. Anyone else here knowing anything about this? Mine says hi.

Btw, are the hands on OP’s watch straight without curvature, can’t really tell so good from these pictures. If so, they could be service ones from the seventies, at maybe the same era when this greenish lume started popping up on the military dials?

I wonder if they made the first batch, waited to see how successful it would be, then made adjustments for the second batch - materials, specs, perhaps suppliers etc - I think it’s a common manufacturing practice for new product launches...
 
Baz9614
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Interesting Hallmark!! I checked my BT but nothing 🙁
 
JanV
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khanmu khanmu
I wonder if they made the first batch, waited to see how successful it would be, then made adjustments for the second batch - materials, specs, perhaps suppliers etc - I think it’s a common manufacturing practice for new product launches...
Could sound like a feasible thing, would be interesting to hear from @kox what information their research has got them.
 
kox
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JanV JanV
This 165024-63 reference is really an interesting one indeed. I’ve seen a lot of these (at least 4 pieces) -63’s with this bezel but without gilt numbers, with T Swiss Made T markings, with 165024-63 markings inside the case back, and with 22.9xx and 23.000 serials and confirmed eoa’s for 165024. So somehow this reference has been made in at least two batches, with some time in between.

@JanV, are you absolutely sure the ones you have seen are subreference -63's and not -64's? If you have any -63´s with those parts in the 229x or 230x range I would really like to see them.

As I recall it your example above is a 165.024-64....right ? 😉
 
JanV
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kox kox
@JanV, are you absolutely sure the ones you have seen are subreference -63's and not -64's? If you have any -63´s with those parts in the 229x or 230x range I would really like to see them.

As I recall it your example above is a 165.024-64....right ? 😉
Oh man, am i getting senile or what, even if i’m not even that close to 50 yet... You are just so right, mine is a -64 god damnit. 😀 What was i thinking, and yes, all the other ones i was referring to where -64’s as well.
 
JanV
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Would the a B2 bezel then be considered correct for a -63, should not this one have the first edition bezel? Just thinking out loud...
 
kox
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Depends on the production date, but I guess the OP's would be a spring 64 production....so yes, it should have the B1 bezel and not the B2 .... IMO
 
Foo2rama
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That dial.....
 
JanV
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kox kox
😁
This teaches me not to respond to OF questions during work, and to get my mind in order first prior to responding. 😗
 
khanmu
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Baz9614 Baz9614
Yes it is! Hmmm

Interesting - at first I wondered if it might be an owners mark, but now I think it might be either a makers mark or an indication that the case (and the buckle example) are made from “base metal” to differentiate from silver or white gold. Or of course it’s a fake case...Will have to see what the extract says!
 
cristos71
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JanV JanV
Oh man, am i getting senile or what, even if i’m not even that close to 50 yet... You are just so right, mine is a -64 god damnit. 😀 What was i thinking, and yes, all the other ones i was referring to where -64’s as well.

Don't worry you're not the only one, @kox knows more about my 300's than I do too 😁
 
omegaman
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Nice looking example, I like that gilted dial. As others said before, bezel should rather be a B1 and the hour and minute hand seems to be relumed. Nothing to worry about FMPOV. And good catch with that case marking!
 
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