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Seamaster with Scratched Out Movement Serial

E
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Hello OF! Long time lurker, first time poster.

Wanted to get your expert insights on a concern. I purchased my Seamaster in February from a dealer in NYC with very strong reviews. I finally got around to searching for the serial number last night to try to date it (dealer had placed it 2004) and could not find it on any of the lugs. I decided to open the case back check the movement, at which point I saw that the movement serial had been scratched out.

Research over the last 12 or so hours has turned up that scratched serials were very common in this era for grey market watches. While I’m not overly concerned about it’s overall authenticity, I’m having pause about having a potentially stolen (only other reason I found to scratch a serial), definitely obfuscated, watch. With that, I’m concerned Omega won’t provide service to it. Is this a valid concern or would an explanation and receipt be enough for an OB to take it for servicing?

I’m not as concerned about resale value as I purchased it to mark the end of my final deployment as a Naval Officer and plan to pass it to my kid someday, but would certainly prefer it to be unblemished.

Long winded background, but my question is - what should I do? Should I see if the dealer will swap it for a fully legit watch? Not worry about it and keep enjoying the heck out of it?

On a happier note, I just bought a ‘47 bumper (30.10ra pc) that I plan to restore. Look forward to interacting with you all, thanks for the time!
 
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BenBagbag
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Did the dealer disclose this to you when you purchased it? Was the caseback opened prior to purchase? I'd first go back to the dealer and get some more info. It would be unsettling to me...
 
Foo2rama
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WTF?

At the end of the day if this is a run of the mill model it doesn’t really affect anything.

still f’in wierd. Why would anyone do that is the question?
 
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@BenBagbag No disclosure from the dealer - they tout an authenticity guarantee so I think I’m going to ask them if they took pictures or have any details from when they authenticated/serviced the watch. The listing is still up and I verified there wasn’t a movement shot. I purchased online, didn’t think to ask for movement pictures - lesson learned!

@Foo2rama I’ve learned that in the late ‘90s-early ‘00s certain ADs would buy central/Eastern European grey market watches, polish the case serial and scrub the movement serial to hide origins, and then sell them in the States/Western Europe. I don’t really know why it stopped being as common, but from what I’ve read, it stopped around ‘08.
 
Foo2rama
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E EaglesAffirm
@BenBagbag No disclosure from the dealer - they tout an authenticity guarantee so I think I’m going to ask them if they took pictures or have any details from when they authenticated/serviced the watch. The listing is still up and I verified there wasn’t a movement shot. I purchased online, didn’t think to ask for movement pictures - lesson learned!

@Foo2rama I’ve learned that in the late ‘90s-early ‘00s certain ADs would buy central/Eastern European grey market watches, polish the case serial and scrub the movement serial to hide origins, and then sell them in the States/Western Europe. I don’t really know why it stopped being as common, but from what I’ve read, it stopped around ‘08.

I've never heard that, and I see no reason why an AD would need to do that. An AD selling a wiped serial is worse than buying from another region to fulfill any demand that exceeds their allotment.

I could in theory see grey market resellers doing that to watches they received... but even then seems little reason for the AD who had the allotment to do that at that time. Not to mention I have never seen one before.
 
gatorcpa
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Foo2rama Foo2rama
I could in theory see grey market resellers doing that to watches they received... but even then seems little reason for the AD who had the allotment to do that at that time.
AD's can sell on the grey market, too. They buy at a lower price than what Omega will sell to them and sell to customer at larger discount than they would for a legitimate watch. Totally against their AD agreement with Omega but I wouldn't put it past some dealers.

The serial number was probably polished off the back of the lug and scratched out on the movement by the offshore dealer so the watch can't be traced back by Omega if they looked at it later.

I would contact the dealer and ask about a swap. But don't be surprised if they want more for a full serial number and with paperwork.
gatorcpa
 
WestCoastTime
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Would expect the s/n to be on a bridge or on the mainplate, not on the balance cock, which is where the scratches are on your watch.

Could be that the balance cock was marked with a country code for export tracking, and someone along the way figured that they could pull a fast one for some kind of tax/customs dodge (take watches cleared for a low import tax zone, but redirect them to a high import tax zone, or similar...).
 
E
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I’m not finding the same threads I was reading last night, but here’s one from WUS on topic. This is more discussing grey market dealings, but I was reading about AD’s doing it as well to exceed allotments, @gatorcpa was saying. Funky early 2000’s things.

https://www.watchuseek.com/threads/omega-watch-with-erased-serial-numbers.903142/

I’m reaching out to the dealer to see if they’ll remedy. If they won’t, anyone have a good recommendation for a watchmaker in the DC area?
 
Evitzee
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Back in the 60's and 70's there was an industry where higher end cameras like the Nikon F line would be exported from Hong Kong into the US, and to circumvent US customs they would deface not only the serial number but also the Nikon name on the body and lens. Some people bought this gear to save money by circumventing US custom duties, US retail markup, and US state sales taxes. I used to have a catalogue from one of the HK dealers and the prices were way lower than the US domestic market which was not fully developed for that business, so the local prices were a lot higher (no competition). That business went away as the market developed and the duty issue was resolved.

From the OP's thread it isn't clear if this was an AD or a second hand or grey dealer. If it was an AD I'd be raising hell, but after seven months I don't think he has much recourse from a grey marketer. IIRC Omega won't service a watch with a defaced serial number, but I could be mistaken.
 
E
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@Evitzee wild! I’ve heard about it with luxury cars before the advent of VinWiki and more recently, carbon fiber bicycle frames, makes sense high end electronics would have had their day as well.

I definitely bought from a secondhand retailer, but one in the heart of the diamond district with glowing reviews and in house authentication. I’ve sent an email asking for any history they have or if they’d swap for a fully serialized Seamaster.
 
Evitzee
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E EaglesAffirm
I definitely bought from a secondhand retailer, but one in the heart of the diamond district with glowing reviews and in house authentication. I’ve sent an email asking for any history they have or if they’d swap for a fully serialized Seamaster.

It's worth following up with them, they should have disclosed the xxx'd out serial number, but the average guy buying a pre-owned Omega watch wouldn't be bothered by it, they just want a decent watch at a good price relative to a new Omega. The dealer probably has experience to know that it wouldn't bother most average buyers, hence they don't bring up that fact.
 
Archer
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E EaglesAffirm
With that, I’m concerned Omega won’t provide service to it. Is this a valid concern or would an explanation and receipt be enough for an OB to take it for servicing?

Omega's policy is that they will not service watches where the serial number has been removed from both the case and the movement, so if you keep this, you will have to find an independent watchmaker to service it for you.

WestCoastTime WestCoastTime
Would expect the s/n to be on a bridge or on the mainplate, not on the balance cock, which is where the scratches are on your watch.

The serial numbers used to be on the barrel bridge, but that part often requires replacing due to wear, so Omega moved it to the balance cock.

Here's an example - wear on the ratchet wheel driving wheel area of the bridge:





Serial number on the top side of the bridge:



In order to get a new serialized bridge, the old one has to be sent back to Omega in Switzerland, and they engrave a new bridge, keep the old one (obviously) and send you the new one:









By moving the serial number the balance cock, this whole process is avoided.

Cheers, Al
 
Annapolis
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Interesting. I’m pretty sure it’s illegal in most states to remove a serial from a product, or to resell one that has the serial removed. (As you say, because it’s possibly a stolen good.) A savvy pawn shop owner, for example, wouldn’t go near this watch if someone brought it in. And I’m pretty sure you’d be legally obligated to disclose this issue were you ever to want to sell it.

Have to say, I would walk away from this if I could. Would make me really nervous, even if it’s something that was routinely done in the past. The erased serial would make more confident that it’s an authentic watch, but less confident that it’s one with a history I’d want to be a part of.

Just my 2 cents.
 
Perseus
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I would not buy a watch without a serial number. I would ask the seller for a refund.
 
mjb
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I bought a Speedmaster in the aughts on the gray market, and its serial number had been polished out. I always assumed that I had no Omega warranty, but that they would still service it (at my cost) down the road. It's a little distressing to read that they will not.

I never opened the back to check the movement, and honestly would never have thought to do that. Of course, I also didn't realize until today that the movements had their own serial number.

As for the OP, I would not expect the dealer to do anything after 8 months except maybe apologize.

But hey, it's still a nice watch, nothing wrong with how it works, so just enjoy it!
 
E
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It’s a gorgeous watch and intended to be a memento of a phase of my life - no response from the dealer, yet, but I’m taking it as a lesson learned either way (I did get a great deal on it).

@Archer - you, Sir, are encyclopedic in your knowledge. Thank you the incredibly detailed response.

And the folks that PM’d WM recommendations in the DC area - thanks!
 
kev1976t
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i wouldnt happy if i bought that watch without knowing the serail no's had been scrathed off, and you coudnt get it officially serviced
 
fc3861
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You’re not the only one, if that’s any comfort.

I was in the same situation with my Seamaster that I bought off a friend of mine who I know had originally purchased it from one of the gray market dealers in the late 90’s new.

I wore the watch every day (it was my only one for 20 years) only taking it off to sleep. Earlier this year it occurred to me that it’s probably due for service even though it was still keeping time after 20 some odd years of doing absolutely nothing to it, not even checking the water seals.

I strolled into my local Omega Boutique earlier this year and dropped it off for a full service. Then I bought the new moon watch while I was in the store because I felt naked without an Omega on my wrist LOL. The next day they called me and said they could not service the watch because all traces of the serial number was removed both inside and out. I then did the same research and found out about that common practice during that era when gray market dealers would remove numbers to hide the origin.

I just picked up the watch and had it serviced at an independent watch maker at a local jeweler instead.

Had I known all of this back then, I probably wouldn’t have bought the watch but, as the saying goes, I got a really good deal on it. If you’re stuck with it now, I wouldn’t worry too much and just enjoy it for what it is, knowing that you just can’t get it serviced by Omega directly.

Best regards,
FC
 
Out of TIME!
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Archer Archer
Omega's policy is that they will not service watches where the serial number has been removed from both the case and the movement, so if you keep this, you will have to find an independent watchmaker to service it for you.



The serial numbers used to be on the barrel bridge, but that part often requires replacing due to wear, so Omega moved it to the balance cock.

Here's an example - wear on the ratchet wheel driving wheel area of the bridge:





Serial number on the top side of the bridge:



In order to get a new serialized bridge, the old one has to be sent back to Omega in Switzerland, and they engrave a new bridge, keep the old one (obviously) and send you the new one:









By moving the serial number the balance cock, this whole process is avoided.

Cheers, Al
Rolex wants the old briges back too, they refubish them when possible.
When I sent bridges back for exchage, the jewels seemed to disappear.
Not sure how or why that happened.....🙁
 
N
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I purchased a 2541.80 off of eBay and it had the serial number scratched off, I sent it back. I was in an Omega boutique a few months later and I asked if they would service a watch without a serial number and they said that they would not. That made me glad I sent it back.
 
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