Community Stories

Run on Vintage Speedmasters lately?

dan7800
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The ASKING price of many Speedys seems to have skyrocketed in the last few months. While the price has been steadily rising (what was $5k last year is likely $6-7 this year) and there are many watches being bought/sold at fair market prices, we've all seen the "what is that seller smoking" asking prices, thus the watch sits unsold for weeks/months. Could it be that people are seeing the asking prices of some watches and figure "well I might as well offer mine at that high of a price and make some bucks". (I cannot say I blame them)

Just a thought
 
Vintagewtchzilla
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padders padders
Did you kick his puppy in an earlier life, he really doesn't share the love in your direction it seems.

馃お馃お馃お

no he didn't and i don't think he's that kind of guy ....

but think it's fascinating how everbody here trust his price chart and takes it as a reference, where u have no proof of anything
you don't know how the prices are calculated
you don't know how many sales are counted
you don't now what was the condition of the pieces
so in the end u know absolutely nothing and still take it as reference @padders ?

e.g. 2915

was 100k then one sold 275k (auction) then slight below 400k (auction) how can it be that is now 400k in his table especially its intended private to private ?

please educate me @Spacefruit
Edited:
 
mr_yossarian
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Vintagewtchzilla Vintagewtchzilla
馃お馃お馃お

no he didn't and i don't think he's that kind of guy ....

but think it's fascinating how everbody here trust his price chart and takes it as a reference, where u have no proof of anything
you don't know how the prices are calculated
you don't know how many sales are counted
you don't now what was the condition of the pieces
so in the end u know absolutely nothing and still take it as reference @padders ?

e.g. 2915

was 100k then one sold 275k (auction) then slight below 400k (auction) how can it be that is now 400k in his table especially its intended private to private ?

please educate me @Spacefruit
In defense of the author: it's ment as an orientation, it's usefull and I am happy it exists. Some take it as that, others deviate from it... I don't think it's setting the market prices globally 馃榾

EDIT: I think you get an Idea who is trying to set/manipulate market prices/orientation prices when you look at IG and Chrono24. Certain Dealers, some well known, others just in their wake.
 
Vintagewtchzilla
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mr_yossarian mr_yossarian
In defense of the author: it's ment as an orientation, it's usefull and I am happy it exists. Some take it as that, others deviate from it... I don't think it's setting the market prices globally 馃榾

EDIT: I think you get an Idea who is trying to set/manipulate market prices/orientation prices when you look at IG and Chrono24. Certain Dealers, some well known, others just in their wake.

i was awaiting exactly this response ... but read my thought ... you know nothing about the HOW TF this prices are calculated

plase make me an example how the hell u in private deal come to 2915 to 400k ??? even dealers are smiling about this figure
 
jimmyd13
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Vintagewtchzilla Vintagewtchzilla
馃お馃お馃お

no he didn't and i don't think he's that kind of guy ....

but think it's fascinating how everbody here trust his price chart and takes it as a reference, where u have no proof of anything
you don't know how the prices are calculated
you don't know how many sales are counted
you don't now what was the condition of the pieces
so in the end u know absolutely nothing and still take it as reference @padders ?

e.g. 2915

was 100k then one sold 275k (auction) then slight below 400k (auction) how can it be that is now 400k in his table especially its intended private to private ?

please educate me @Spacefruit

I can't speak for @Spacefruit , wouldn't try to anyway but let me throw this into the mix and see if it helps or hinders ...

I see the speedmaster101 chart simply as a reference. A note as to what has sold (and it is limited to what the sales the author knows about, whether that is through tracking a website; noting public auctions; or, word of mouth). What I'm going to add is that I keep similar references. One of those references is for charm bracelets. I have a lot of charm bracelets and I want to know what I can sell them for. There are examples from the late 19th century through to the 1970s. There are heavy silver Albert chains and there are white metal gate bracelets. Some have 2 dozen silver charms; some have applied gold decoration; some are white metal; and others are a mix of the two. My little chart notes that there was an 1880-1900 bracelet that hammered at 拢600 to a US buyer last year. There were a few in the 拢400 range and many more sub-拢40. As it is, this little chart is just for my reference. If I published it on a "charmbracelet101" website, would I be influencing the market in any way? No. At least, I doubt very much that I would.

Now, what I couldn't take any responsibility for (or credit, if you prefer) is how such a chart would be read by others ... and it seems that there's the rub. If some take the SP101 price chart as Gospel, can any responsibility be levelled at the person who collated the information? Is my little example of 拢600 for a Victorian bracelet an outlier? It was a nice example, but I have one very similar. Can I ask 拢600 for it and expect it to sell? I don't think so and it's sitting in a little glass cabinet with 拢245 on it. Is the $400,000 2915 representative or is it an outlier? That's for the next seller to decide. All we know is that in this one instance, someone was prepared to pay that much.
 
padders
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Vintagewtchzilla Vintagewtchzilla
i was awaiting exactly this response ... but read my thought ... you know nothing about the HOW TF this prices are calculated

plase make me an example how the hell u in private deal come to 2915 to 400k ??? even dealers are smiling about this figure
Umm because there was an auction sale recently at exactly that figure, ridiculous as it may seem. Do you base your price estimates on real data or do you just stick your finger in the air think of a number and add a zero? I take it you are a dealer? No vested interest there then.
 
ext1
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Same here. I think that the sp101 is only up there as a reference and is constructed from @Spacefruit 's experienced observations and analysis. Any pitfalls and caveats I think he has done his best effort to make them aware and not mislead. We all know watch-collecting is anything but an exact science, so there just ought to be disagreements on just about everything and especially on valuation. All things considered I think it's a great addition to the community.
 
dan7800
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Translation for SpaceFruit's price chart

Sellers: Prices listed are too low, they are higher!
Buyers: They are about right/too high.
 
dscoogs
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I try to read these words below every now and then, when looking up at SP101 Price Chart.
SF - please let me know if I need to remove this pic below with your wording on SP101.

0.JPG
 
Atalien2005
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I think William does a damn good job explaining his price chart. All to often people only read the top $楼拢 portion and interpret it as they see fit depending if they're a buyer or seller.

I've said it before on this forum but I never see watches sell for less than what someone purchased it for (maybe modern). Let's all just admit we love watches and making money on them to fund the next purchase.
Edited:
 
oddboy
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Regarding 2915s specifically, there is very little hard data as so few are sold (publicly)... so price tracking is hard.
 
Vintagewtchzilla
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padders padders
Umm because there was an auction sale recently at exactly that figure, ridiculous as it may seem. Do you base your price estimates on real data or do you just stick your finger in the air think of a number and add a zero? I take it you are a dealer? No vested interest there then.

i am far away of being a dealer
i base my prices real data and the condition
 
Davidt
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Perhaps you should consider an alternative chart if you don't agree?
 
ext1
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Yep, it says on @dscoogs 's picture ("Lastly, [...]") that you are welcome to make your own price chart and that it can also get published if you'd like...
 
BenBagbag
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dan7800 dan7800
Translation for SpaceFruit's price chart

Sellers: Prices listed are too low, they are higher!
Buyers: They are about right/too high.
Similarly, prices can be broken down by "References I own" vs. "References I want to own."
 
padders
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Vintagewtchzilla Vintagewtchzilla
i am far away of being a dealer
i base my prices real data and the condition
Fair enough. To be honest, unlike some on here, perhaps yourself included since I believe you have an impressive collection, the prices allocated to 2915s and even 2998s are a little irrelevant to me so am perhaps less concerned about them than owners with a more personal and pressing interest. My interest lies in the lower part of the chart (well Ed White downwards) but even there I don't see it as gospel. To use an analogy from the world of diamonds with which I am tolerably familiar, I see William's price list analogous with the Rapaport sheet. No one sells diamonds at the price shown on the Rap sheet but it is a useful tool for comparison and allows a benchmark to compare apples with oranges.
Edited:
 
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