Relumed hands— does it matter?

LesXL · Nov 26, 2020

I guess if one has a collection with a high turnover percentage, certain "details" could impact resell value in some watches, or at least matter to some potential buyers. For sure, on higher tickets value.

Not having a large collection, my turnover is rather mostly in than out, unfortunately for my wallet. And with the current assumption that they are for personal enjoyment.

That in mind, I don't mind relumed hands, if well done as everyone has said. Alternatively, if hands needs to be relumed, but the rest of the watch is very nice, I would also consider it.

Professor · Nov 26, 2020

I have little interest in lumed hands, at least those using the most common commercial lumes.
Lume that stays bright less than half an hour after being removed from a light source is practically worthless.
Dead lume on an older vintage watch is no real drawback to its utility, except perhaps a diver watch. Some sort of lume is practically necessary for a dive or flyer watch.

If true radium lume were available I would like to have a vintage or even a modern watch relumed with radium.

Professor · Nov 26, 2020

fibonacci
Intact lume would, of course, be most preferable, but my understanding is it will eventually deteriorate and fall out in the end.

I'd rather have degraded , cracked, flaking, radium lume removed completely, since flecks of matter might get into the works sooner or later.
If dead but still solid I'd leave it as is.

Syrte · Nov 26, 2020

Thanks everyone for your thoughts and contributions.
They’re making me realize that we’re not all necessarily comparing comparable situations.
If we’re dealing with 1960s sports watches or tool watches, like some dive watches or speedmasters, there are dozens and dozens of examples surfacing on a regular basis — and if I were seeking one of those certainly I would prefer to wait for the an example that only has original lume throughout.

I think however the examples I have in mind are watches one rarely comes across, or that have one striking feature.
Or an exceptional dial, or a watch that’s difficult to find in good condition and the one example that finally comes along happens to have relumed hands....

For me in those types of cases where a watch I really like comes along— and I know there will not be another or that I will have to wait for a long time if it weren’t for the lumed hands — I don’t really don’t mind having to relume as a worst case scenario.

JwRosenthal · Nov 26, 2020

I think it also bears clarification as I see there is some confusion on the matter- those of us who have hands relumed aren’t wanting them to glow (there are a few here who do want glow)- in fact they typically don’t after a relume. It’s just about matching the material that is missing or damaged for daylight reflective color and texture if possible.

JwRosenthal · Nov 26, 2020

And I’ve shown this in other threads- it makes all the difference

Joe_A · Nov 26, 2020

I'd been looking for a Gallet MC 12H "Jim Clark" for some time. I personally see patina as damage unless it is very fine and uniform. There are many speckle-dialed watches to choose from that I find undesirable. In many cases the asking price is very close to what a good watch would cost.

I realize that one person's delicious cream is another person's fattening agent. 😉

After a time, I found this watch at a what I felt was a fair price.

and this . . .

I sent it out for service and asked that the central hands be relumed and this is what I received:

Before and after . . .

The crown is not original (yet) but otherwise I am happy with the result and I am sure I'd get back more than I spent for it should I should decide to sell one day . . . assuming the market does not suffer a downturn.

Meanwhile, who else knows that the central hands have been relumed besides you? 😉

Cheers,

Joe

Dimitris · Nov 26, 2020

Personally I wouldnt care so much but it depends on the patina of the indices , if the relumed hands pop and are white as snow then thats a big no no. Reluming should be done only when is essential.

eugeneandresson · Nov 26, 2020

To me its totally acceptable (and preferable) if

1) The hands were already relumed to begin with (and they look bad)
2) There is damage to to the lume and its crumbling out and into the movement.

Otherwise the adage 'if it aint broke, don't fix it' applies in all other cases.

krogerfoot · Nov 26, 2020

I have old watches that have lost lume during my ownership. If I had the wherewithal to do so I would probably fix them, especially if the results approached what @Joe_A and @JwRosenthal achieved. If I were intending to sell the watches, though, I’m not sure how that would influence my decision.

Syrte · Nov 26, 2020

@JwRosenthal and @Joe_A, those are great examples of what I mean. Is the Zodiac relume only on the hands or also on the dial? The color looks different on the last picture. Looks lovely though.

Braindrain · Nov 26, 2020

I bought this knowing the hands were relumed. Only about 50 known in existence. While not super rare, let's say they don't come up very often.

Cathedral hands, from that era, were known to have lume completely fall out and disintegrate. I honestly don't know of any actual examples with original lume, tbh.

So, yes, while I prefer my watches not to be relumed at all, this was an example nice enough and kind-of-rare enough for me to get it.

The dial, on the other hand, does have original lume and is quite *hot*.

Archer · Nov 26, 2020

Relumed hands— does it matter?

It depends...really there are a lot of variables, so I don't think there is an answer that fits all situations.

What I can say from a service provider point of view, is that people generally want to preserve the lume that was there originally in my experience. So cracked lume and even lume where a portion has fallen out, I am asked to stabilize it often, but rarely asked to relume.

For me personally, I don't like discoloured or moldy lume, so I probably wouldn't buy a watch with that. If I did and got a good deal, I would likely opt for a good quality relume.

Cheers, Al

Larry S · Nov 26, 2020

Joe_A
I'd been looking for a Gallet MC 12H "Jim Clark" for some time. I personally see patina as damage unless it is very fine and uniform. There are many speckle-dialed watches to choose from that I find undesirable. In many cases the asking price is very close to what a good watch would cost.

I realize that one person's delicious cream is another person's fattening agent. 😉

After a time, I found this watch at a what I felt was a fair price.

and this . . .

I sent it out for service and asked that the central hands be relumed and this is what I received:

Before and after . . .

The crown is not original (yet) but otherwise I am happy with the result and I am sure I'd get back more than I spent for it should I should decide to sell one day . . . assuming the market does not suffer a downturn.

Meanwhile, who else knows that the central hands have been relumed besides you? 😉

Cheers,

Joe

Excellent example of a proper job by a professional shop.

Helvetia History · Nov 26, 2020

For the level of watches I buy I don't mind. I am not too fussy about some missing or discoloured lume and will usually leave as is but if the look of the watch is ruined by a lot of missing old or badly applied or wrong looking new lume, and if it's something I like, I will buy the watch and relume it in a matching style myself.

I can do hands and I've had a go at numerals on an enamel dial.

However if it was a valuable vintage watch where the value was in the originality I wouldn't touch it but as I say the watches I buy very rarely fall into that category.

Marsimaxam · Nov 26, 2020

Generally, in regards to expensive vintage watches, and as a collector, I'd rather they not be relumed nor would I consider a relume. If the existing condition of the hands and plots are unattractive to me, I simply don't buy the watch and look for a better example. I did say "generally" as I do have a few watches that were relatively inexpensive, less than 500.00 USD, that I purchased with relume hands.

It's interesting that in terms of an iconic valuable vintage watch that many prefer originality, however, in an classic old home, how many still have the original light fixtures, wall coverings, paint, plumbing fixtures and appliances? It is far more acceptable to buy an older home pre-1930s and completely remodel... which in many cases increases the value of the home. Most people would think it's crazy to walk into a 1920s Spanish Colonial Revival home or a Victorian home and find everything as it was when the home was new. Yes, it is a matter of convenience and modern technology which don't apply to a device that tells time. Interesting...

JwRosenthal · Nov 26, 2020

Syrte
@JwRosenthal and @Joe_A, those are great examples of what I mean. Is the Zodiac relume only on the hands or also on the dial? The color looks different on the last picture. Looks lovely though.

Color balance between the two photos is very different. He cleaned the dial and surface of the indices (which were covered in a fine layer of funk) then matched the color of the hand lume to the indices.

X350 XJR · Nov 26, 2020

How not to relume hands. 😲

Syrte · Nov 26, 2020

JwRosenthal
Color balance between the two photos is very different. He cleaned the dial and surface of the indices (which were covered in a fine layer of funk) then matched the color of the hand lume to the indices.

Great work 👍

JwRosenthal · Nov 26, 2020

Marsimaxam
Generally, in regards to expensive vintage watches, and as a collector, I'd rather they not be relumed nor would I consider a relume. If the existing condition of the hands and plots are unattractive to me, I simply don't buy the watch and look for a better example. I did say "generally" as I do have a few watches that were relatively inexpensive, less than 500.00 USD, that I purchased with relume hands.

It's interesting that in terms of an iconic valuable vintage watch that many prefer originality, however, in an classic old home, how many still have the original light fixtures, wall coverings, paint, plumbing fixtures and appliances? It is far more acceptable to buy an older home pre-1930s and completely remodel... which in many cases increases the value of the home. Most people would think it's crazy to walk into a 1920s Spanish Colonial Revival home or a Victorian home and find everything as it was when the home was new. Yes, it is a matter of convenience and modern technology which don't apply to a device that tells time. Interesting...

I live in a neighborhood that was a development built in 1929- it was mixed income (upper and middle class). Many of the residence here stay for 40+ years so you see many come up with older remodels- many of them very bad.
One house I went into during an open house had been occupied by the same owners since 1961- they were the second owners.
It had the original gourmet kitchen from 1929- brass wall mount gooseneck sink fixtures, tile counter tops and subway tile walls, cast iron professional gas range with hood, glass door upper cabinets, full butler’s pantry- even the working Fridgadaire with the fan on top! It was an absolutely time capsule and impeccably maintained.
My ex and I both gasped when we walked in and the realtor immediately said “oh, I know- this all needs to be ripped out and and redone”...I actually said to her “are you fυcking insane??”.
With watches, I agree with with leave it alone if it’s functional and intact. If you don’t find it attractive, someone else may- so either don’t buy it or sell it to someone who will like it. But it the lume has physically failed- flaking, disintegrating, missing entirely- you have nothing to lose.

Relumed hands— does it matter?

LesXL

Professor

Professor

Syrte

JwRosenthal

JwRosenthal

Joe_A

Dimitris

eugeneandresson

krogerfoot

Syrte

Braindrain

Archer

Larry S

Helvetia History

Marsimaxam

JwRosenthal

X350 XJR

Syrte

JwRosenthal

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