Relumed hands— does it matter?

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I bought this knowing the hands were relumed. Only about 50 known in existence. While not super rare, let's say they don't come up very often.

Cathedral hands, from that era, were known to have lume completely fall out and disintegrate. I honestly don't know of any actual examples with original lume, tbh.

So, yes, while I prefer my watches not to be relumed at all, this was an example nice enough and kind-of-rare enough for me to get it.

The dial, on the other hand, does have original lume and is quite *hot*.

Great example, and a very cool watch too- also posted on MWR several years ago IIRC?
 
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Great example, and a very cool watch too- also posted on MWR several years ago IIRC?

Great memory! Yes, posted on MWR, bought about a year ago. I think it had been for sale for about six months or a year. No takers which resulted in subsequent price drops, and worked out well for me!
 
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I live in a neighborhood that was a development built in 1929- it was mixed income (upper and middle class). Many of the residence here stay for 40+ years so you see many come up with older remodels- many of them very bad.
One house I went into during an open house had been occupied by the same owners since 1961- they were the second owners.
It had the original gourmet kitchen from 1929- brass wall mount gooseneck sink fixtures, tile counter tops and subway tile walls, cast iron professional gas range with hood, glass door upper cabinets, full butler’s pantry- even the working Fridgadaire with the fan on top! It was an absolutely time capsule and impeccably maintained.
My ex and I both gasped when we walked in and the realtor immediately said “oh, I know- this all needs to be ripped out and and redone”...I actually said to her “are you fυcking insane??”.
With watches, I agree with with leave it alone if it’s functional and intact. If you don’t find it attractive, someone else may- so either don’t buy it or sell it to someone who will like it. But it the lume has physically failed- flaking, disintegrating, missing entirely- you have nothing to lose.

In regards to homes... I’m one of those that like the original look... you wouldn’t call me insane. It is unfortunate that so many of those “time capsules” are being ripped out and redone... but, not, this one...
1928 Spanish Revival
 
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In regards to homes... I’m one of those that like the original look... you wouldn’t call me insane. It is unfortunate that so many of those “time capsules” are being ripped out and redone... but, not, this one...
1928 Spanish Revival
Thank you for being a good steward to that home- we need more people like you.
I would show my 1938 bathroom (my house was part of the second phase of the neighborhood- the “mixed income”) but it’s filthy at the moment. I have put lots of sweat equity into maintaining the original fixtures (all chrome plated brass) cast iron tub, pedestal sink, original toilet, all original black & white tile (hand cutting and regrouting every joint rather than ripping it all out), basketweave tile floor (with several cracks that need to be hand filled to color match). It’s a labor of love and you build a great network of craftsman and tradesmen (most of whom hoard parts) that can keep it all going.

And that broker would have thought us insane, but when we go to sell our homes- the right buyer will appreciate it and understand the commitment.
 
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All of these have been relumed.



The Hamilton was also redialed since it was a bad redial when I got it.

With a porcelain dial, relume is easy to do and easy to remove if you change your mind. The Omega had a different color at first that just didn't look right.

Sometimes my watchmaker will refuse to relume hands when the original lume is intact, and in that case, I don't mind much because the lume in such a tiny slot is nearly impossible to see anyways. I have my modern Seamasters with huge tracts of lume if I really want to see what time it is in the dark.
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Thank you for being a good steward to that home- we need more people like you.
I would show my 1938 bathroom (my house was part of the second phase of the neighborhood- the “mixed income”) but it’s filthy at the moment. I have put lots of sweat equity into maintaining the original fixtures (all chrome plated brass) cast iron tub, pedestal sink, original toilet, all original black & white tile (hand cutting and regrouting every joint rather than ripping it all out), basketweave tile floor (with several cracks that need to be hand filled to color match). It’s a labor of love and you build a great network of craftsman and tradesmen (most of whom hoard parts) that can keep it all going.

And that broker would have thought us insane, but when we go to sell our homes- the right buyer will appreciate it and understand the commitment.
I admire your efforts too as I understand the challenges and sweat in maintaining an older home. I had to learn to do many things myself, especially, plumbing, as so many plumbers just wanted to change to contemporary fixtures and not deal with the stem and valves. I finally found a plumber who specializes and maintains vintage fixtures. Parts are always a challenge, but, in time, as you have, you build a network of suppliers and craftsmen. I still have the originally gravity heating system in my house, and the F-valves that regulate the gas flow will last another 100 years easily. The quality of construction in older homes is far superior, in my honest opinion, in so many ways then modern construction. It wasn't just about function, but esthetics too; something as simple as a heating vent is ornate, or a doorknob, or a light fixture, letter box, etc. Yes, I have conceded to modern appliances as homes in the 1920s lacked many of the applicances we have in a modern kitchen, but, everything else is from 1928.

I would love to see photos of your tile, and the original fixtures.
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I've posted this watch before on this topic.



Which lume (dial or hands or both or some or none) is original?


I had my WM do his "thing" on both hands to approximate the lume on the dial since they both had cracked/fractured/missing lume.

I bought it knowing my WM was talented. May have scared off some buyers but I have no way of knowing.
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All of these have been relumed.



The Hamilton was also redialed since it was a bad redial when I got it.

With a porcelain dial, relume is easy to do and easy to remove if you change your mind. The Omega had a different color at first that just didn't look right.

Sometimes my watchmaker will refuse to relume hands when the original lume is intact, and in that case, I don't mind much because the lume in such a tiny slot is nearly impossible to see anyways. I have my modern Seamasters with huge tracks of lume if I really want to see what time it is in the dark.
Love the Pershing- those giant troughs on the hands are begging for lume when they are naked. And the dials are always missing 90% of their lume- so a natural for a good relume as that’s the whole point of those watches.
 
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Love the Pershing- those giant troughs on the hands are begging for lume when they are naked. And the dials are always missing 90% of their lume- so a natural for a good relume as that’s the whole point of those watches.
Actually, the round one is the Foch.

 
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I admire your efforts too as I understand the challenges and sweat in maintaining an older home. I had to learn to do many things myself, especially, plumbing, as so many plumbers just wanted to change to contemporary fixtures and not deal with the stem and valves. I finally found a plumber who specializes and maintains vintage fixtures. Parts are always a challenge, but, in time, as you have, you build a network of suppliers and craftsmen. I still have the originally gravity heating system in my house, and the F-valves that regulate the gas flow will last another 100 years easily. The quality of construction in older homes is far superior, in my honest opinion, in so many ways then modern construction. It wasn't just about function, but esthetics too; something as simple as a heating vent is ornate, or a doorknob, or a light fixture, letter box, etc. Yes, I have conceded to modern appliances as homes in the 1920s lacked many of the applicances we have in a modern kitchen, but, everything else is from 1928.

I would love to see photos of your tile, and the original fixtures.
The maintenance of these older homes is much like our watches- particularly the ones with long NLA parts (like UG, Bulova, Longines etc). The network of suppliers abs tradesmen with the passion is the same- just on a larger scale.
I had a full blockage in my bathroom sink at the junction in the wall at the tub. It couldn’t be snaked, it was rock hard and all the drain lines are cast iron- so it had to be cut at the blockage. There is a hatch above the stairs behind the tub but the chrome plated J-trap galvanized pipe off the sink that goes into the wall had finally failed (I discovered this while trying to plunge the sink and the back
-pressure blew the j-trap out and water started spraying from behind the pedestal sink)- the pipe crumbled in my hand.
I had one very well respected plumbing company tell me they had to rip out my tile wall across to the tub, trough a hole in the plaster on lathe in the stair hall and cut the frame for the paneled door hatch above the stairs- I was devastated. Plus, parts for my pedestal sink were no longer available and they could provide me with a modern replacement and do all PVC out from the wall. Cost would have been around $2.5k and having the tile and plaster work redone was up to me...I wanted to fυcking cry.
I called another company that is known for working with these older homes and recommended by the plumbing supply shop I deal with for parts and fixtures ( a third generation business that hoarded American Standard parts when the company sold off the last of their historic stock).
The second plumbing company said they could do they work but they had an 8 week backlog and I would have to wait- so we did- brushing teeth in the kitchen sink, all hygiene things sitting next to the knife block on the kitchen counter.
When they finally came, they brought all the parts needed to fix my sink- all old stock American Standard (they got them from the guy I deal with). They cut a 9x9” hole in the wall in the linen closet and with two of them working together, were able to work the pipe out of the wall without touching any of the plaster or tile work. They replaced all the historic parts in kind and snaked all the lines down- and even added a clean-out behind the sink which it did not have before. Total cost for the job was $1.3k and I didn’t have to do anything to repair the house other than get a trap door for the linen closet. And all the visible plumbing from the wall to the sink is still chrome as it was.
I know- this is totally off topic, but not so much that the parallel can’t be made that if you have the network of people and patience to do the legwork, you can have restorative work done (on a house or watch) with little to no visible signs of the work and it will only enhance the value of the house/watch and your enjoyment of it. And it was totally worth brushing my teeth in the kitchen sink for 8 weeks to keep my tile, my plaster and my chrome plumbing.
 
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The maintenance of these older homes is much like our watches- particularly the ones with long NLA parts (like UG, Bulova, Longines etc). .....
Great story with a great ending.
When I bought the house in 1990 I was not as knowledgeable and had yet to develop my resources. I had an all porcelain bathroom sink faucet... the likes I’ve never seen since, that was leaking, a plumber said it couldn’t be repaired and parts did not exist to repair, although I asked him to set it aside when replaced with another vintage faucet, he threw out the porcelain faucet... but not in my trash. Never got it back. Never used him again.

Later I found this company online, located in California, that is a great source for vintage parts, and will do custom repairs
Link:
http://www.deabath.com/
 
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Great story with a great ending.
When I bought the house in 1990 I was not as knowledgeable and had yet to develop my resources. I had an all porcelain bathroom sink faucet... the likes I’ve never seen since, that was leaking, a plumber said it couldn’t be repaired and parts did not exist to repair, although I asked him to set it aside when replaced with another vintage faucet, he threw out the porcelain faucet... but not in my trash. Never got it back. Never used him again.

Later I found this company online, located in California, that is a great source for vintage parts, and will do custom repairs
Link:
http://www.deabath.com/
While I was on work travel my ex-wife called me saying the toilet was leaking- she called a big plumbing company and they told her that the whole toilet needed replacement- parts were just no longer available. I told her to shut off the water and use the basement toilet (she was not happy). I would deal with it when I got back. The gasket on the bottom of the brass filler tube was leaking- it was a .40c universal part and I had it replaced in about 10 minutes.
On the watch topic- my grandmother had a 14k Cartier bracelet watch that she wore for years (I remember it well, it had a textured surface with the rectangular watch integrated into the bracelet). It stopped working and the local jewelers wanted to replace it with a quartz movement. She told them to shove it, and found a watchmaker to repair it- for less than the jeweler wanted to swap the movement with a quartz. I wonder who in my family ended up getting that watch...maybe I should find out.
 
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The maintenance of these older homes is much like our watches- particularly the ones with long NLA parts (like UG, Bulova, Longines etc). The network of suppliers abs tradesmen with the passion is the same- just on a larger scale.
I had a full blockage in my bathroom sink at the junction in the wall at the tub. It couldn’t be snaked, it was rock hard and all the drain lines are cast iron- so it had to be cut at the blockage. There is a hatch above the stairs behind the tub but the chrome plated J-trap galvanized pipe off the sink that goes into the wall had finally failed (I discovered this while trying to plunge the sink and the back
-pressure blew the j-trap out and water started spraying from behind the pedestal sink)- the pipe crumbled in my hand.
I had one very well respected plumbing company tell me they had to rip out my tile wall across to the tub, trough a hole in the plaster on lathe in the stair hall and cut the frame for the paneled door hatch above the stairs- I was devastated. Plus, parts for my pedestal sink were no longer available and they could provide me with a modern replacement and do all PVC out from the wall. Cost would have been around $2.5k and having the tile and plaster work redone was up to me...I wanted to fυcking cry.
I called another company that is known for working with these older homes and recommended by the plumbing supply shop I deal with for parts and fixtures ( a third generation business that hoarded American Standard parts when the company sold off the last of their historic stock).
The second plumbing company said they could do they work but they had an 8 week backlog and I would have to wait- so we did- brushing teeth in the kitchen sink, all hygiene things sitting next to the knife block on the kitchen counter.
When they finally came, they brought all the parts needed to fix my sink- all old stock American Standard (they got them from the guy I deal with). They cut a 9x9” hole in the wall in the linen closet and with two of them working together, were able to work the pipe out of the wall without touching any of the plaster or tile work. They replaced all the historic parts in kind and snaked all the lines down- and even added a clean-out behind the sink which it did not have before. Total cost for the job was $1.3k and I didn’t have to do anything to repair the house other than get a trap door for the linen closet. And all the visible plumbing from the wall to the sink is still chrome as it was.
I know- this is totally off topic, but not so much that the parallel can’t be made that if you have the network of people and patience to do the legwork, you can have restorative work done (on a house or watch) with little to no visible signs of the work and it will only enhance the value of the house/watch and your enjoyment of it. And it was totally worth brushing my teeth in the kitchen sink for 8 weeks to keep my tile, my plaster and my chrome plumbing.
Great story, I really enjoyed reading it. I've always loved old property and myself have an old house built in circa 1830 making it late Georgian, early Victorian. Sadly a lot of the original fixtures have been ripped out through time, but the tall ceilings, ceiling roses, cornicing and coving remain in many of the rooms, and my favourite feature: a beautiful original Carrera marble fireplace on the first floor. The windows are old and wooden, and I've been spending the last couple of months slowly repairing them as I work my way down the house. Many of them are arched, you could say they are gothic in design and would cost a fortune to have made new. The one I have been working on this week had completely rotten away at the sill, but I managed to cut out the old wood and replace it for new and now it's strong again. I'm going to strip it down to bare wood, fill and tidy up and once painted it'll be better than I've ever known it during my ownership. I gave up using tradesmen as you rarely find any that have the same level of passion and care as you do yourself, so I do most of these more intricate works myself. I believe all work on old buildings should be at the very least sympathetic to their heritage as like @Marsimaxam has mentioned, things are not built the same today and I sadly don't believe we are likely to ever see the level of craftsmanship that went into houses of the past again.
 
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Great story, I really enjoyed reading it. I've always loved old property and myself have an old house built in circa 1830 making it late Georgian, early Victorian. Sadly a lot of the original fixtures have been ripped out through time, but the tall ceilings, ceiling roses, cornicing and coving remain in many of the rooms, and my favourite feature: a beautiful original Carrera marble fireplace on the first floor. The windows are old and wooden, and I've been spending the last couple of months slowly repairing them as I work my way down the house. Many of them are arched, you could say they are gothic in design and would cost a fortune to have made new. The one I have been working on this week had completely rotten away at the sill, but I managed to cut out the old wood and replace it for new and now it's strong again. I'm going to strip it down to bare wood, fill and tidy up and once painted it'll be better than I've ever known it during my ownership. I gave up using tradesmen as you rarely find any that have the same level of passion and care as you do yourself, so I do most of these more intricate works myself. I believe all work on old buildings should be at the very least sympathetic to their heritage as like @Marsimaxam things are not built the same today and I sadly don't believe we are likely to ever see the level of craftsmanship that went into houses of the past again.
Thank you for your efforts. Are you from the UK or the continent? I have always found that most, but not all, Europeans and Brits take far more pride in their architectural history then Americans. In Los Angeles, if it's older than 50 years... tear it down and build new. We have lost so many incredible structures... art deco, victorian, craftsman, etc over the years in the LA area ( The Richfield Building, Dodge House, Garden of Allah, Pickfair, Carthay Circle Theater, Marion Davies Beach House, Hollywood Hotel, de Longpre Mansion, etc.). I realize the architectural history in LA or the US can not compare to the history in Europe or elsewhere in the world... but, there seems to be a greater respect in other countries than in the US for the architecture.
 
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@Marsimaxam the awkward moment when you browse trough all vintage products on that website you attached and don't even own your own house, let alone one from that era. 😁

Its nice to se people who "respect" history! That goes for you tooo @JwRosenthal 👍
 
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Thank you for your efforts. Are you from the UK or the continent? I have always found that most, but not all, Europeans and Brits take far more pride in their architectural history then Americans. In Los Angeles, if it's older than 50 years... tear it down and build new. We have lost so many incredible structures... art deco, victorian, craftsman, etc over the years in the LA area ( The Richfield Building, Dodge House, Garden of Allah, Pickfair, Carthay Circle Theater, Marion Davies Beach House, Hollywood Hotel, de Longpre Mansion, etc.). I realize the architectural history in LA or the US can not compare to the history in Europe or elsewhere in the world... but, there seems to be a greater respect in other countries than in the US for the architecture.
Not to mention the Ambassador Hotel and all of its bungalows! Talk about an incredible history (not even talking about the RFK infamy), and it got leveled. I am an LA native- I watched the city transform during the 80’s & 90’s from a sleepy industry town of bungalows, cottages, mid-century ranchers and hilltop Spanish colonial to McMansions and gaudy excess. It broke my heart. The Mid-Atlantic holds the promise for any preservationist- the city’s are too poor and quality housing stock too precious to do mass clearing like that.
 
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Thank you for your efforts. Are you from the UK or the continent? I have always found that most, but not all, Europeans and Brits take far more pride in their architectural history then Americans. In Los Angeles, if it's older than 50 years... tear it down and build new. We have lost so many incredible structures... art deco, victorian, craftsman, etc over the years in the LA area ( The Richfield Building, Dodge House, Garden of Allah, Pickfair, Carthay Circle Theater, Marion Davies Beach House, Hollywood Hotel, de Longpre Mansion, etc.). I realize the architectural history in LA or the US can not compare to the history in Europe or elsewhere in the world... but, there seems to be a greater respect in other countries than in the US for the architecture.
You're right, I'm in the UK. I believe that this partially has to do with taste. For a long time Victorian architecture was considered "ugly" and only older buildings such as those built during the Tudor period were given the respect that they deserved. The victorian "Renaissance Hotel" in London is an example of an absolutely stunning piece of architecture that was threatened with demolition. Thankfully this didn't happen, as somehow tastes changed and Victorian architecture grew in favour. After some campaigning the demolition plans were halted and in 2004 £150 million was invested in the building turning it into the beautiful hotel it is today. Nowadays, many buildings that have architectural importance are protected under conservation laws.

lonpr-arrival-0052-hor-clsc_O.jpg
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This photograph was taken some 20 years ago when I got my first digital camera and was trying it out. I was living with old lume in this beater Glycine.

Some years later it began crumbling and making a mess so had my watchmaker replace it. This has long been the "chores around the house" and field watch for me so I didn't care much about the originality of old lume.
 
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You're right, I'm in the UK. I believe that this partially has to do with taste. For a long time Victorian architecture was considered "ugly" and only older buildings such as those built during the Tudor period were given the respect that they deserved. The victorian "Renaissance Hotel" in London is an example of an absolutely stunning piece of architecture that was threatened with demolition. Thankfully this didn't happen, as somehow tastes changed and Victorian architecture grew in favour. After some campaigning the demolition plans were halted and in 2004 £150 million was invested in the building turning it into the beautiful hotel it is today. Nowadays, many buildings that have architectural importance are protected under conservation laws.

lonpr-arrival-0052-hor-clsc_O.jpg
I’m sorry, was there a building behind that E-Type?
 
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Having had a long love/hate relationship with classic cars I find pragmatism useful in relation to vintage artefacts. "Looks the part" or period correct to the eye is something I am willing to live with.
My last classic, a Triumph TR4 sadly now sold, was restored to be visually correct to it's original specification outside and in the cockpit, using factory colours as listed on the heritage certificate and as many original components as possible. The original Triumph road wheels were however in a perilous state and ditched for safety reasons, replaced with period correct Minlilites.
Under the bonnet was a different matter, added a brake booster, cooling fan, electronic ignition and various performance upgrades because I wanted to drive the car reliably and safely in modern traffic and not sit by the road awaiting the tow truck or end up stuck in the back of a German SUV whose driver decided the gap in front of me was big enough for them, if they braked hard enough on the way in🙄.
Same with watches, the only watch of mine that is knowingly relumed is my Telestop, service hands relumed to match the dial. I tried to source an original set for the watch but failed and think the relumed service hands are a sensible cost effective visual match, better than fitting a straight set of luminova certainly.
If reluming is done professionally and properly, when nothing else can save the original, for me it can only enhance a vintage watch and as long as the watch is sold on with full disclosure I see no problem with it. Sure, given the choice, I prefer absolute originality but sometimes you just have to compromise and move on, I would say no one apart from collectors would spot a proper relume and even then sometimes not if by James Hyman. The average person looking at your watch just sees a nice, apparently, original vintage piece, if they notice it at all. Personally I would rather look down at a perfect matching relume than a watch with missing or ruined original luminous material but that's just me.
And I would never relume this, like as is, water exposure and all.