Railmaster Goodwill find

Archer · Jan 28, 2020

size11s
Conservation (conserving what IS there) is gaining much more serious consideration than it used to compared to straight forward restoration (restoring what USED to be there) in most areas of antiques and collectables. The disciplined ethics of conservation are more relevant to some types of objects than others, obviously, and there are loads of grey areas that make it an interesting debate that can't really be reduced to black and white, yes/no cases. Historical information carries more 'value' (not just monetary) to more and more collectors and this has to be a good thing as once it's gone, it's gone. Military watches are the most obvious case in point.

I can see that for Omega trying to make profitable business taking each owners sensibilities and subjective opinions into account is potentially time consuming and problematic. That their response is to adopt this approach of 'like new' across the board is poor customer service in my opinion and they should invest more effort into developing it as a specialist service with clear communication at the outset as to what is possible and what the customer desires done to the watch. That they don't automatically return original/replaced parts is simply bad practice, in my opinion.

Omega does return parts that are replaced in service to the watch owner. There are companies (Rolex for example) that do not.

Archer · Jan 28, 2020

JCC
i guess I’m the type of customer they’re looking for then.

If that's what you really want, and you now know what the consequences of doing so are, then go for it.

JCC
I found a poster who had a great experience with Omega service. This is exactly the kind of service work and result I want for my grandmother’s 1964 Seamaster.

https://omegaforums.net/threads/experience-with-omega-service-center-in-bienne.102341/

Just be aware that not all of them turn out as nice as the thread you found, as Omega will use "similar" parts that may differ cosmetically from the original parts - not condition, but design. So the watch may come back looking very different than it did even when new.

Most people who collect vintage watches want to preserve the history, but there is no right or wrong answer here for your watch. It's your property, so if you want to have it fully restored by Omega, that's your choice. The main issue (and why people are warning you) is that many people send the watch in not udnerstanding what Omega does, and they get a very nasty surprise when the watch comes back not being what they expected. But since you know that now, if it comes back looking very different, you were at least warned.

Cheers, Al

size11s · Jan 28, 2020

Archer
Omega does return parts that are replaced in service to the watch owner. There are companies (Rolex for example) that do not.

That's good. I stand corrected, thank you.

Eyeontheball · Jan 28, 2020

Burr
Hey OP, any update? Quite interested in what happens next on this journey 😀

Nothing yet. Still waiting on the WM estimate for repair and time. Planning on following up tomorrow

rkman11 · Jan 28, 2020

Great find and great thread! Excited to follow this!

Eyeontheball · Jan 28, 2020

JCC
i guess I’m the type of customer they’re looking for then. To me i couldn’t stand wearing a watch that look like it belongs in the junk drawer. A good analogy would be if you had a Ferrari that’s in the same condition as the Chevy Nova Eddie Murphy had in Beverly Hills Cop. I think anyone here would be embarrassed to be seen in one even if it’s a Ferrari.

Everyone here would want that Ferrari to be restored to like new condition. That’s how I feel about watches. I want it restored to like new or as much as possible without destroying the original watch as sometimes the watch is in such poor condition that restoring it would be like building a new one. I don’t see the point in those cases.

I have my grandmother’s 1964 Seamaster de Ville that I’m thinking of sending to Omega to get overhauled. Not their restoration service but just the regular service. I would think that they still have parts for the watch so I wouldn’t be getting a frankenwatch back? But in terms of making it look new I would welcome that.

Imagine the only thing Ferrari would keep is the car shell and instead of using a Ferrari engine they put a Fiat because its the same size.

Eyeontheball · Jan 29, 2020

OP update: Just received this estimate for repair

Thank you for choosing Grand Central Watch. After careful examination of your watch, Omega, we have found that it requires a Complete Overhaul which includes the following repairs:

* Complete disassembly of all parts of the movement
* Ultrasonic cleaning of movement
* New mainspring
* New crystal
* Ultrasonic clean the case (No extra charge)NOTE:The case is rusted. The dial size is 31.7mm.Cosmetic Condition Of Watch As Received
Hands - Age Marked , Scratched
Dial - Age Marked , Scratched
Crystal - Scratched
Case - Scratched

The cost of the repair will be $975 (plus tax) and includes a 24 month warranty . The work will take approximately 4-6 weeks . We will begin immediately upon your approval.

Repairs and Options Price
Complete refinishing of the case $225.00 Optional

DECLINED ESTIMATE FEE $125.00

This is a little higher than I was expecting and would love to get peoples take on the estimate.

Thanks,

Dan S · Jan 29, 2020

E Eyeontheball
OP update: Just received this estimate for repair

Thank you for choosing Grand Central Watch. After careful examination of your watch, Omega, we have found that it requires a Complete Overhaul which includes the following repairs:

* Complete disassembly of all parts of the movement
* Ultrasonic cleaning of movement
* New mainspring
* New crystal
* Ultrasonic clean the case (No extra charge)NOTE:The case is rusted. The dial size is 31.7mm.Cosmetic Condition Of Watch As Received
Hands - Age Marked , Scratched
Dial - Age Marked , Scratched
Crystal - Scratched
Case - Scratched

The cost of the repair will be $975 (plus tax) and includes a 24 month warranty . The work will take approximately 4-6 weeks . We will begin immediately upon your approval.

Repairs and Options Price
Complete refinishing of the case $225.00 Optional

DECLINED ESTIMATE FEE $125.00

This is a little higher than I was expecting and would love to get peoples take on the estimate.

Thanks,

I think that Grand Central Watch is often recommended, but they do half-assed work and their prices are relatively high, which is not surprising given their location. Based on what they are quoting (a basic COA service with mainspring and crystal, for a manual wind time-only watch), the price is roughly 3-4 times higher than my watchmaker would charge. However, my watchmaker inspects movements very carefully, so he might be more likely to identify worn parts that needed replacement, which would increase the price, but also improve the repair.

Just by coincidence, I have purchased two watches that had been serviced by them within a year of my purchase, and both of them had issues. The services were convincingly documented with an official warranty document including the serial number of the watch and a photo. When my watchmaker inspected them, he found that the movements were clean, but that the lubrication was not properly done and some badly worn parts had not been replaced. I think they are just a high volume assembly line type of place, and they rely on name recognition. Obviously, the 24 month warranty is fantastic, but frankly I'd rather just have the work done correctly the first time, instead of having to take it back for further repairs later.

MSNWatch · Jan 29, 2020

If inclined to repair just send it to @Archer

JCC · Jan 29, 2020

E Eyeontheball
Imagine the only thing Ferrari would keep is the car shell and instead of using a Ferrari engine they put a Fiat because its the same size.

I doubt very much that that's what Omega does. In fact, they themselves are the most PITA people to deal with. The service center said that if they find anything in the movement that's been modified or not original parts once they open the case, they will return it and refuse the service. That would mean that they must adhere to their own rules when doing the overhaul or else they would never be able to service that watch again because they wouldn't know that they themselves substituted something inappropriate into the movement. So no, they're not going to randomly substitute parts. I'm sure they have actual replacement parts for their watches. They are even known to make parts if they don't have it in order for it to be correct.

Archer · Jan 29, 2020

JCC
I doubt very much that that's what Omega does. In fact, they themselves are the most PITA people to deal with. The service center said that if they find anything in the movement that's been modified or not original parts once they open the case, they will return it and refuse the service. That would mean that they must adhere to their own rules when doing the overhaul or else they would never be able to service that watch again because they wouldn't know that they themselves substituted something inappropriate into the movement. So no, they're not going to randomly substitute parts. I'm sure they have actual replacement parts for their watches. They are even known to make parts if they don't have it in order for it to be correct.

Omega is clear that if the movement is not of Omega manufacture, they will refuse to service it. However, if parts in the movement are not Omega, for a common example a non-Omega replacement mainspring, they will not refuse toe service the watch. They will install the correct Omega parts, provided they have them.

For case parts, that's a different story. Omega will replace parts they deem unacceptable with "similar" parts. Not "at random" of course, because random placing of parts isn't something anyone does, but they will replace them with modern parts that may not be original to that specific model for example, but may still work.

JwRosenthal · Jan 29, 2020

E Eyeontheball
OP update: Just received this estimate for repair

Thank you for choosing Grand Central Watch. After careful examination of your watch, Omega, we have found that it requires a Complete Overhaul which includes the following repairs:

* Complete disassembly of all parts of the movement
* Ultrasonic cleaning of movement
* New mainspring
* New crystal
* Ultrasonic clean the case (No extra charge)NOTE:The case is rusted. The dial size is 31.7mm.Cosmetic Condition Of Watch As Received
Hands - Age Marked , Scratched
Dial - Age Marked , Scratched
Crystal - Scratched
Case - Scratched

The cost of the repair will be $975 (plus tax) and includes a 24 month warranty . The work will take approximately 4-6 weeks . We will begin immediately upon your approval.

Repairs and Options Price
Complete refinishing of the case $225.00 Optional

DECLINED ESTIMATE FEE $125.00

This is a little higher than I was expecting and would love to get peoples take on the estimate.

Thanks,

That’s outrageous for a CLA without any knowledge of real parts inspection and replacement- they are doing a Jiffy Lube special at dealer prices.
For that price- I would just send it to Omega as they will actually replace the parts that are worn In the movement, and you would probably get a properly (we hope) refinished dial and correct hand set (we hope) for actually less money!

JCC · Jan 29, 2020

Archer
Omega is clear that if the movement is not of Omega manufacture, they will refuse to service it. However, if parts in the movement are not Omega, for a common example a non-Omega replacement mainspring, they will not refuse toe service the watch. They will install the correct Omega parts, provided they have them.

For case parts, that's a different story. Omega will replace parts they deem unacceptable with "similar" parts. Not "at random" of course, because random placing of parts isn't something anyone does, but they will replace them with modern parts that may not be original to that specific model for example, but may still work.

Yea, I spend an hour yesterday at their 5th Ave store boutique service center talking to the customer service guy. While he may not be 100% correct, he has been there for many years and have seen what Omega accepts and refused to service. He told me over and over again that they will refuse service if they open it and find anything that's not original Omega. He didn't say movement or case. He said anything.

While I'm not sure how stringent those rules are he said he just wanted to warn me that once they get my vintage piece back to Switzerland and open the case, they will make that determination. So, there's a risk for vintage pieces to not get serviced.

Archer · Jan 29, 2020

JCC
Yea, I spend an hour yesterday at their 5th Ave store boutique service center talking to the customer service guy. While he may not be 100% correct, he has been there for many years and have seen what Omega accepts and refused to service. He told me over and over again that they will refuse service if they open it and find anything that's not original Omega. He didn't say movement or case. He said anything.

While I'm not sure how stringent those rules are he said he just wanted to warn me that once they get my vintage piece back to Switzerland and open the case, they will make that determination. So, there's a risk for vintage pieces to not get serviced.

CSR = take with large grain of salt.

JCC · Jan 29, 2020

JwRosenthal
That’s outrageous for a CLA without any knowledge of real parts inspection and replacement- they are doing a Jiffy Lube special at dealer prices.
For that price- I would just send it to Omega as they will actually replace the parts that are worn In the movement, and you would probably get a properly (we hope) refinished dial and correct hand set (we hope) for actually less money!

Yes, I agree. Omega is a much better value. But you take the chance of them refusing service if they deem something is not original inside. Also, when I spoke to the service rep yesterday, he said that they take requests when it comes to service. He even showed me invoices that they send to Switzerland that have specific instructions such as light polish or do not polish. He said they try to honor all requests if it doesn't affect the performance of the piece. Since cosmetic issues wouldn't affect the performance I assume that they would not polish your watch if you don't want it done. He also said that they will ask you your preference for certain replacements such as the dial.

redpcar · Jan 29, 2020

E Eyeontheball
Imagine the only thing Ferrari would keep is the car shell and instead of using a Ferrari engine they put a Fiat because its the same size.

Ferrari put a Fiat engine in this 🙄

gemini4 · Jan 29, 2020

E Eyeontheball
OP update: Just received this estimate for repair

Thank you for choosing Grand Central Watch. After careful examination of your watch, Omega, we have found that it requires a Complete Overhaul which includes the following repairs:

* Complete disassembly of all parts of the movement
* Ultrasonic cleaning of movement
* New mainspring
* New crystal
* Ultrasonic clean the case (No extra charge)NOTE:The case is rusted. The dial size is 31.7mm.Cosmetic Condition Of Watch As Received
Hands - Age Marked , Scratched
Dial - Age Marked , Scratched
Crystal - Scratched
Case - Scratched

The cost of the repair will be $975 (plus tax) and includes a 24 month warranty . The work will take approximately 4-6 weeks . We will begin immediately upon your approval.

Repairs and Options Price
Complete refinishing of the case $225.00 Optional

DECLINED ESTIMATE FEE $125.00

This is a little higher than I was expecting and would love to get peoples take on the estimate.

Thanks,

You're better off throwing your RM under a train at Grand Central

JCC · Jan 29, 2020

E Eyeontheball
OP update: Just received this estimate for repair

DECLINED ESTIMATE FEE $125.00

Thanks,

Holy crap, they're asking you to pay them $125 just for the pleasure of gouging you?!

JwRosenthal · Jan 29, 2020

JCC
Yes, I agree. Omega is a much better value. But you take the chance of them refusing service if they deem something is not original inside. Also, when I spoke to the service rep yesterday, he said that they take requests when it comes to service. He even showed me invoices that they send to Switzerland that have specific instructions such as light polish or do not polish. He said they try to honor all requests if it doesn't affect the performance of the piece. Since cosmetic issues wouldn't affect the performance I assume that they would not polish your watch if you don't want it done. He also said that they will ask you your preference for certain replacements such as the dial.

In the OP’s case they most likely won’t service it without replacing/refinishing the dial and replacing the hands as they are not factory correct, nor to Omega spec, thus can’t warranty then.
I think that’s where people confuse Omega’s agenda as insidious and poor customer service- but aren’t understanding it from the manufacturer’s viewpoint which is in order to warranty a product, it has to be to factory spec. failing lume and damaged dials are not to factory spec- so they replace them..... makes perfect sense to me. If you don’t want that, don’t send it to them.

In the case of the OP’s watch, it doesn’t physically resemble the original design in any way. If you want it to look more like it did when it left the factory- then perhaps a factory service may be a good route for you (and guaranteed to be 100% mechanically using factory correct parts). If you like it the way it is (the dial and hands) then no- do not dream of sending it to Omega and send it to another independent watchmaker- preferably someone who knows what they’re doing and had access to an Omega parts account- they are gonna need it.

Archer · Jan 29, 2020

JCC
Omega is a much better value. But you take the chance of them refusing service if they deem something is not original inside.

Going to say this again - there is no Omega policy that states what you are claiming. They are using this tactic to deter people from using other watchmakers.

JCC
He said they try to honor all requests if it doesn't affect the performance of the piece. Since cosmetic issues wouldn't affect the performance I assume that they would not polish your watch if you don't want it done. He also said that they will ask you your preference for certain replacements such as the dial.

Omega may ask your preference, but if they deem something is likely to cause the watch to come back within the 2 year warranty period, your preferences won't matter. They will either replace the parts, or refuse the service.

Railmaster Goodwill find

Archer

Archer

size11s

Eyeontheball

rkman11

Eyeontheball

Eyeontheball

Dan S

MSNWatch

JCC

Archer

JwRosenthal

JCC

Archer

JCC

redpcar

gemini4

JCC

JwRosenthal

Archer

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