Quite a conundrum- Photos of a watch I own, taken by others- mine or not?.

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cvalue13

·Jan 30, 2021

Or, perhaps most crucially: don’t forget the forum explicit requirement that sales posts not use other’s photos or listing description?

“What is not tolerated at all!

• Using other peoples photos in ANY advert is strictly prohibited & will mean the advert being pulled and your selling privileges revoked and a possible ban.”

 

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TimeODanaos

·Jan 30, 2021

This. Please do move on, but please do take people's advice - it is well meant, and some of our friends here really do know what they are talking about, so sometimes it's not about "perspectives", it's about rules, and the thing about rules is they need to be followed. I'm unfollowing now.
(I feel a fair use rip of a certain photo belonging to Walrus might be on the way...)

Edited: Jan 30, 2021

 

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Mr.Bliss

·Jan 30, 2021

I actually asked the OF for help and asked if that includes photos of an item I personally own. Hopefully I'll receive an answer.

 

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ChrisN

·Jan 30, 2021

You can take photos that are fairly good even with a really cheap phone like my Nokia. Here resting on an upside down tumbler with window at 11 O'Clock and white paper at 3 O'clock.

Good luck, Chris

 

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Scooterino36

·Jan 30, 2021

Mr.Bliss

I actually asked the OF for help and asked if that includes photos of an item I personally own. Hopefully I'll receive an answer.

i think that is implied by the rule, because if you didn’t own the watch, it would be a fraudulent sales post.

 

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High Hope

·Jan 30, 2021

As many have said, the photo is owned by the photographer. That it’s a photo of your watch is irrelevant, all the more so since you didn’t even own the watch when the shots were taken. The only thing I can think of to explain the guy’s behavior might be that he’s a professional photographer? Nonetheless, his behavior and overreaction are nasty, esp. on a friendly hobbyist’s forum like OF.

Move on and don’t give him a second thought. And, learn to take your own photos. 😀

 

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cvalue13

·Jan 30, 2021

Mr.Bliss

and asked if that includes photos of an item I personally own.

Hello,

you do seem a bit hung up on the motion that owning an object photographed results in some right to the photo. that is a rather strange fixation.

the rule is written clearly and unambiguously. And in absence of a response from an OF mod, one might assume (1) to follow the rule, and (2) when the first sales post was deleted, the mods were clarifying for you.

 

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Archer

·Jan 30, 2021·Omega Qualified Watchmaker

"Although I am quite confident I have managed things correctly and pretty confidant I won't change my opinion (unless someone can point out a reason to as how I might of harmed anyone)."

You might be confident, but you didn't "manage things correctly. You violated forum rules, and used someone else's intellectual property without permission. Abuse is not warranted, but removing your posts certainly was. This is an experience you can learn from, so don't copy other people's listings, and don't use other people's photos, and you will be fine.

 

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Mr.Bliss

·Jan 30, 2021

Not sure what would be considered less polite, following members request to drop it or to ignore
others.
Anyway, I conceded a long time ago.

Thanks

 

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Evitzee

·Jan 30, 2021

Personally, if I sold a watch and the subsequent owner wanted to sell it and use my old pics it wouldn't bother me, but many people are touchy about ownership for various reasons. Whatever. But the OF rule is pretty clear and hard, you can't use other peoples pics. That would seem to preclude using them even if you got permission from the photographer. So you have to abide by the rules and take your own pics. Claiming you are a crummy photographer is no excuse, everyone can learn.

Edited: Jan 30, 2021

 

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Syrte

·Jan 30, 2021

@Mr.Bliss if you read the rules of the sales forum you will see it is prohibited to use photos which are not your own.
So it is no mystery why your thread was removed.

Whether you’d like to debate the rules is a separate matter. Someone once reminded members this is a privately owned forum, and we don’t get to set the rules. Another wording was that it’s not a democracy, it is a benevolent dictatorship.

As I see it we are all guests in someone’s living room, I’m grateful for the privilege of enjoying the forum, but no one’s forced to be here if they don’t like the way it’s run.

 

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Awetaylor

·Jan 30, 2021

As a psychologist observing this, the original argument is less important than the subsequent behaviour.

In every group there are social rules, and even hidden rules that are commonly understood. From my observations - and your own admittance - you have riled some feathers by breaking these rules early on when you joined, which you can’t be blamed for as a new member. However, rather than take the time to listen, learn and apply... you have reacted emotionally and invited conflict, which will alienate yourself (this thread is the most recent example).

This means that certain members will be much less forgiving when you transgress again. They will In turn react emotionally against you (which isn’t right or just either, although very human).

Rather than react emotionally, the solution is to take a deep breath, listen, observe the social rules, and apply them. Small moments like this will build trust and you will be given “the benefit of the doubt” more often.

 

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N05J3W3

·Jan 30, 2021

As a buyer, I expect to see recent photos that accurately show the current condition of the watch that is offered for sale. I do not care what the watch looked like in the past, under the care pf previous owners. The photos should be documentary evidence for the sale, not an aesthetic performance.

I agree with @connieseamaster: proof of ownership is helpful in ensuring this.

 

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Observer

·Jan 30, 2021

I don’t know about other countries, but in the US the photographer owns the image unless there is documentation stating otherwise. Doesn’t matter what the subject is. Could be your own beautiful face. Doesn’t matter. In that case you could make legal demands on how he uses it, but he still owns it and you can’t legally use it without his permission.
On the other hand, polite people who were raised correctly start their interactions politely.
Aside from best selling practices:
You should have requested permission to use the photos, but you didn’t, so:
The photographer should have politely informed you that you didn’t have the right to use them.

That’s all. The rights of photographers are frequently misunderstood.

 

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Dan S

·Jan 30, 2021

I haven't read through all the comments, so I apologize if this has already been mentioned, but this issue is explicitly addressed in the rules, so the OP has no excuse for his actions, or his claim that he didn't know he was doing anything wrong. Just read the rules. Apparently, removal of the thread is the mildest action that the mods take. It could have been worse.

And starting this current thread to complain and excuse yourself (which is actually what you are doing here), is simply compounding things. If you think that this thread makes you look better instead of worse, you should think again.

 

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watchcollect

·Jan 30, 2021

As mentioned above the rules clearly state the photos should be yours. Defending the legality of photos just taints the whole sales post now.

Using someone else’s photos is certainly an issue, as I would want to see the watch in its current state. A simple link to the original sales post, mentioning the photos would have been a better option.

Had I been the previous seller, the fact that the sales post including the wording is practically the same would certainly have frustrated me. It’s just lazy in my opinion.

Edited: Jan 30, 2021

 

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Scarecrow Boat

·Jan 30, 2021·Burt Macklin, FBI

Mr.Bliss

For the sake of this discussion please give me the benefit of the doubt

You broke a rule that states:
“What is not tolerated at all!

• Using other peoples photos in ANY advert is strictly prohibited & will mean the advert being pulled and your selling privileges revoked and a possible ban.”

You then say

Mr.Bliss

It didn't take long and I was contacted by a member claiming to be the owner of the photos demanding I delete
the photos right away.

Your listing still exists in the private sales section and out of the 10 images in it, 9 belong to someone else. Despite being asked to take them down, you instead keep them up and create this thread? Those images were also taken in March 2020, which makes your listing incredibly shady.

Mr.Bliss

Would you have soiled my sale thread with an irrelevant comment?

The irrelevant comment you complain about...

I've seen those photos before: https://omegaforums.net/threads/king-seiko-chronometer-4402-8000-serviced.111332/

Used with permission?

...is pretty relevant

Lastly, I will focus in on the point of the "irrelevant" comment:

Used with permission?

Mr.Bliss

Not long after that another kind heart posted a question on the sale thread asking if I had asked the owner for
consent. He obviously new I didn't

Why this thread exists is beyond me🤦

Edited: Jan 30, 2021

 

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alam

·Jan 30, 2021

I would have done things differently as I have seen other FS threads showing photos taken by others/previous owners — but in each instance, the Seller was upfront stating the pictures were taken by others/previous owner and either the handle of the previous owner or a link to the original FS thread was included in the ad. This leads me to assume the previous owner had agreed to the use of his/her pictures by the new owner. Agree, a fresh set of pictures never hurts a FS thread.

 

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Mr.Bliss

·Jan 30, 2021

Awetaylor

As a psychologist observing this, the original argument is less important than the subsequent behaviour.

In every group there are social rules, and even hidden rules that are commonly understood. From my observations - and your own admittance - you have riled some feathers by breaking these rules early on when you joined, which you can’t be blamed for as a new member. However, rather than take the time to listen, learn and apply... you have reacted emotionally and invited conflict, which will alienate yourself (this thread is the most recent example).

This means that certain members will be much less forgiving when you transgress again. They will In turn react emotionally against you (which isn’t right or just either, although very human).

Rather than react emotionally, the solution is to take a deep breath, listen, observe the social rules, and apply them. Small moments like this will build trust and you will be given “the benefit of the doubt” more often.

Yes I know, I'm not very good with social rules, hidden rules I find even more difficult to understand.
Things are more simple from were I from, Not to many gray areas- Speak your mind, don't get your knickers in a twist over something not very meaningful or of great concern and actions always speak louder then words-
The word "polite" has been used so often as an excuse to lash out that its sadly lost most of its true meaning.

I didn't notice any conflict but members opinions. I myself might write in an emotional way but
I that was not my intension or my position, just pointing out my my view of things.
Sadly, you did leave out any references to the fact that I would do things different in the future.

"Wow you're spot on.
Let me just end by saying....
There's not always a right and a wrong and what is clear to some as right might seem different to someone, especially if he live in a country on the other side of the planet.
Thank you all for your perspectives, I'll try and do things better next time but no doubt I'll screw up somewhere else. Ha Ha."

 

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Observer

·Jan 30, 2021

I don’t understand why you used those photos. Most people posting from their phones in WRUW do far better work.