Pay it forward.

PatrickJ · Dec 28, 2015

tyrantlizardrex
Just throwing in a couple of pennies here on the whole Grey Market thing.

I don't have the cash to buy a new Omega, either AD, Boutique, or GM, so have no skin in this game, but:

1) Boutiques and AD's, add value by having expensive and impressive bricks and mortar stores, very often in expensive locations, with well presented staff, who are selling the brand as much as the products.

Not just perception, a store on Old Bond Street, or in The Royal Exchange is going to be costing them £££.

And that's going to be factored into the selling prices of their stock.

So what you're getting through the official routes, is the full brand experience... It's impressive, it's full on Omega, and it's expensive.

It also comes with a factory warranty, which as others have said, is only worth the cost of a full service by Omega (as this then gets the 2 year warranty on the work).

2)GM doesn't have any of that.

And if you're not bothered by the full brand experience, and are happy that the watch you're buying is genuine (easily checked), then why not buy GM.

The calculations are pretty simple.

Either

RRP + Brand experience + factory warranty = happy customer.

Or

RRP - brand experience - factory warranty - percentage of RRP = happy customer.

Neither way is right or wrong, it's a personal choice issue.

They are different levels of grey dealers that carry different risks. Even the good ones are not regulated. It is strange to have papers that are not stamped. You have a problem and the watch goes back to Omega because the GMD did not service it with correctly sourced parts under the warranty they provide. How will they order them in 2016 as they are not authorised dealers, the co axial is a tricky one to service. Meanwhile, at the Omega boutique you are asking them to send the watch for service explaining you got it as a gift and waiting for it to be verified as correct. This is from a good GMD the bad ones have been known to take serial numbers off in some countries and parts of the US that is illegal. We have had people on the forum put up about movements debating if they are correct they got from GMD. It took me years to afford my Omega new, god only knows how long it will be before I get a Submariner if that day comes. But I have peace of mind as it was purchased correct.

tyrantlizardrex · Dec 28, 2015

It's very much a "you pays your money, you makes your choice" kind of thing I think Patrick.

😀

Pvt-Public · Dec 28, 2015

P PatrickJ
That is different, clearence sale is for a reason as a newer BMW is being released etc....

Well you did say "DISCOUNTING IN ANY SHAPE OR FORM DOWN GRADES THE BRAND." and in all caps for emphasis.
OK, forget the car analogy, almost every merchant that has every existed has had a discount sale at some time. So according to your logic almost everything has been "down graded". Sorry I just don't buy that theory.

If you are going to paint every discount with such a broad brush you damn well better get the color right.

mozartman · Dec 28, 2015

Consider that once Omega has fully cut off the supply of replacement parts to independent repairers, they can also refuse to accept watches for repair that were not purchased with a warranty from an authorized dealer, and essentially eliminate the gray market. I read that their co-axial movements can only be regulated with a special machine only available from Omega.

PatrickJ · Dec 28, 2015

tyrantlizardrex
It's very much a "you pays your money, you makes your choice" kind of thing I think Patrick.

😀

I agree.

PatrickJ · Dec 28, 2015

mozartman
Consider that once Omega has fully cut off the supply of replacement parts to independent repairers, they can also refuse to accept watches for repair that were not purchased with a warranty from an authorized dealer, and essentially eliminate the gray market. I read that their co-axial movements can only be regulated with a special machine only available from Omega.

I have mentioned on various occasions regarding servicing of their modern movements in this thread. I am glad someone picked up on it, proceed with caution people. If you have an issue even if your watch is GM worst case you go to Omega, you tell them it was a gift they fix it and you have a warranty for the work. Provided the watch is 100% to start off with, which a lot of GM dealers are ok for the main part. Just try and get it correct and not caught out if you want to take the GM route. I attach this article for your safety.

http://www.chronocentric.com/watches/graymarket.shtml

PatrickJ · Dec 28, 2015

mozartman
Consider that once Omega has fully cut off the supply of replacement parts to independent repairers, they can also refuse to accept watches for repair that were not purchased with a warranty from an authorized dealer, and essentially eliminate the gray market. I read that their co-axial movements can only be regulated with a special machine only available from Omega.[/QUOTE

I think you have a point about the part needed.

Davidt · Dec 28, 2015

mozartman
Consider that once Omega has fully cut off the supply of replacement parts to independent repairers, they can also refuse to accept watches for repair that were not purchased with a warranty from an authorized dealer, and essentially eliminate the gray market. I read that their co-axial movements can only be regulated with a special machine only available from Omega.

Yes Omega could refuse to service watches that weren't purchased from an AD or Boutique.

They could also insist you pay for your service with magic beans and collect it, in person, butt naked.

Doesn't mean they will.

Why would they go to the effort of cataloging the sales channel of every watch, just so they could turn away business. Not to mention the fact that many grey market watches have an AD stamp.

I completely understand that some people don't have the time or inclination to research what is correct, who is trustworthy etc and would rather buy from official channels. That's entirely up to the individual.

What I don't understand is the scaremongering of other purchase channels with no evidence whatsoever.

Despite my comments, I actually don't prefer grey over AD. If/when I buy a new watch, I'll probably go the AD route. I just think advise on forums should be based on facts and experience, not paranoid fears.

PatrickJ · Dec 28, 2015

Davidt3449
Yes Omega could refuse to service watches that weren't purchased from an AD or Boutique.

They could also insist you pay for your service with magic beans and collect it, in person, butt naked.

Doesn't mean they will.

Why would they go to the effort of cataloging the sales channel of every watch, just so they could turn away business. Not to mention the fact that many grey market watches have an AD stamp.

I completely understand that some people don't have the time or inclination to research what is correct, who is trustworthy etc and would rather buy from official channels. That's entirely up to the individual.

What I don't understand is the scaremongering of other purchase channels with no evidence whatsoever.

Despite my comments, I actually don't prefer grey over AD. If/when I buy a new watch, I'll probably go the AD route. I just think advise on forums should be based on facts and experience, not paranoid fears.

Don't have the time to research based on who's evidence? Is it a consensus of opinion or is it based on clear evidence. See the attached and read the part about how to be sure your Omega is genuine. Lest we forget we are buying an Omega product.

http://www.omegawatches.com/customer-service/faq/

Davidt · Dec 28, 2015

P PatrickJ
Don't have the time to research based on who's evidence? Is it a consensus of opinion or is it based on clear evidence.

Sorry I don't know what you mean.

BlackTalon · Dec 28, 2015

Boy, there is definitely a one-man crusade to discredit all the sellers of new Omegas who are not ADs or boutiques. I get it -- -GMDs are not for you. But rather then tell people they will suffer eternal damnation if they go that route, why not just post why YOU don't like it, and leave it at that? Discounting cheapens the brand? Well that is your opinion. It makes if more possible for people like me to obtain a new one. Why should everyone who buys a new one suffer a 30% drop in value the day they walk out of a boutique? I'm all for manufacturer-approved stores, but I am fully, 100% against forcing MSRPs on said stores.

watchknut · Dec 28, 2015

A few quick qualifying questions for the OP.

How many watches have you bought and sold over the years?

Have you had any issues with a grey market watch and service?

Have you ever bought a watch that wasn't 100% genuine Omega (and I am not talking about a replaced crown or crystal)?

Have you ever bought a high end watch from a private seller other than an dealer or on the forum?

The reason I ask is that your posts, and continued links to FAQs and articles show evidence of a novice collector who is portraying a rather dystopian view of the watch collecting world, and I think that most new collectors need to see both the positives and negatives.

A majority of sellers are honest folks, and that is a fact. Over the years I have bought and sold 100+ higher end watches ranging from a lowly Tag to PPs and APs, and everything in between. Not one came from an AD or a mainstream dealer, and somehow, all were 100%. It is possible to be very successful as a collector, you just have to educate yourself before jumping into the deep end, and gain valuable experience both buying and selling.

Let's be honest about Grey Market Omega watches--we are not talking about complicated Breguet, PP, AP, and other high end watches where grey market has an impact (i.e. a watch sold into the Asian market but serviced being requested by a US owner with no record of duties being paid). We are talking about basic Omegas, ones that should never be sent back to Omega for a service in the first place...honestly, how many people have had to take advantage of a watch warranty? Unless a complete dud, most basic issues can be solved by any competent watchmaker.

Why should they not be sent back to Omega? Well, because Omega charges a premium for service that is not always the best, as seen by efauser's recent experience. All collectors should have an experienced watchmaker that can service their watches and not rely on the AD or Omega service. If you don't have one, a simple thread post will bring suggestions for trusted watchmakers. I have never sent a watch back the factory and steer clear of brands whose parts are super limited--that is the reason I sold my AP ROO, and did not buy a vintage Movado Zenith chronograph that needed a new crystal gasket.

But parts you say will dry up you say.. .Why on earth would Omega take all of the parts in house? It makes no sense. You think that they want to add thousands of watchmakers to keep up with servicing millions of watches? Hell no. Imagine Toyota or Honda requiring all of their cars be serviced at a dealer...

Sure, they will eventually stop selling case parts, but basic parts will always be available, much like Rolex. Will they be more difficult to obtain, most likely, but will still be available. Rolex locks down their independent watchmakers, and limits what parts can be ordered, they are also under contract not to resell any parts, and if new parts are ordered, are required to do a complete service of the watch. If you are a Rolex watchmaker, you respect Rolex and do not bite the hand that feeds you. Omega will be same.

I hope that you are able to venture into the market on your own one day without hand holding, it is fun, and there are a lot of great watches to be had if you buy the seller first.

Archer · Dec 28, 2015

mozartman
Consider that once Omega has fully cut off the supply of replacement parts to independent repairers, they can also refuse to accept watches for repair that were not purchased with a warranty from an authorized dealer, and essentially eliminate the gray market. I read that their co-axial movements can only be regulated with a special machine only available from Omega.

This thread appears to be a classic case of "a little knowledge is dangerous"...

First since this keeps being repeated, I'll keep clarifying it. Swatch has not cut off any independent repair shops with the new policy. They have cut off 3rd party resellers of parts, so the only people who can't get parts are those who never bought them directly from Swatch in the first place.

If a watchmaker wants to become an approved shop there is a path to do so, so parts are still available to those who have gone through or will go through that process.

Second, the only time Omega is not going to service a watch is if it is a complete fake, or if it's so old they no longer have the parts to repair it. They do not refuse to service watches that were bought through the grey market, or that have aftermarket parts in them, etc. You will have to pay for the service and pay for any incorrect parts to be replaced, but they do not refuse watches because of these things. To suggest otherwise is just fear mongering. A member here has a pretty obvious agenda. Don't buy into his rhetoric.

Third, I'm not sure where you read that regulating a co-axial requires a special machine only available from Omega, but this is completely false. You appear to be mixing 2 issues together...one is that a wrench is required to adjust the timing screws on the balance wheel, and that is a special tool available from Omega. However aftermarket versions exist, and in a pinch even a Rolex Micro Stella tool (or an aftermarket version of that tool) will work. This tool is not a machine by most people's definition:

The other is the timing machine has to be modern and of high enough quality to have a program specifically for co-axial escapements in order to read the balance amplitude correctly (timekeeping and beat error will be fine even without this program). A cheap Chinese made machine won't work well, but I don't know any really professional watchmakers who use such machines.

Cheers, Al

watchknut · Dec 28, 2015

Al, I am not sure your are qualified to make these statements 😀

Thanks for setting the record straight.

PatrickJ · Dec 28, 2015

Davidt3449
Sorry I don't know what you mean.

I was referring to your quote see below David:

I completely understand that some people don't have the time or inclination to research what is correct, who is trustworthy etc and would rather buy from official channels. That's entirely up to the individual.

PatrickJ · Dec 28, 2015

BlackTalon
Boy, there is definitely a one-man crusade to discredit all the sellers of new Omegas who are not ADs or boutiques. I get it -- -GMDs are not for you. But rather then tell people they will suffer eternal damnation if they go that route, why not just post why YOU don't like it, and leave it at that? Discounting cheapens the brand? Well that is your opinion. It makes if more possible for people like me to obtain a new one. Why should everyone who buys a new one suffer a 30% drop in value the day they walk out of a boutique? I'm all for manufacturer-approved stores, but I am fully, 100% against forcing MSRPs on said stores.

I don't like it and Omega don't like it. It would be better for you to save more and do it the correct way. It is my opinion it is better not to take short cuts and do it right. We choose in life the type of people we want to be, our values are reflected in what we do and yes what watch we wear. Respect to all members.

Pvt-Public · Dec 28, 2015

P PatrickJ
I don't like it and Omega don't like it. It would be better for you to save more and do it the correct way.

Now if I can just find that 1969 166.028 Seamaster I like at the Boutique.

BlackTalon · Dec 28, 2015

Sure Omega doesn't like it -- they need their boutiques to be profitable. So they need a certain mark-up to sustain the level of service, etc. they want their boutiques to offer. The issue is that is a somewhat outdated business model for many consumers, and these customers do not wish to fund such operations. I bought Omegas because they are Omegas -- not because I hope they one day turn into Rolexes. To me Rolex does not have a cachet, although I am slowly starting to appreciate *some* of their watches. I had numerous jewelers advise against buying them years back because they were considered in many circles to be overpriced for what they offered, and mainly status symbols. And yes, many Rolex buyers bought them because, well, they were Rolexes and not because they actually knew anything about watches.

Omega boutiques and ADs are there for those who fear they will be buying a watch that will have issues during the 2-5 year warranty period, and are willing to pay a 25-30% premium because of their concern. GMDs are there for people who do not share such fears, and who also know the pluses and minuses. There is nothing magical about the technologies in the Omegas, and as others have said there are many watchmakers who can make repairs if needed. There are only so many parts that can break/ have issues. In the end, (to use a car analogy) it's all bolt-on stuff. There would likely be very, very few instances where a brand new Omega is a true lemon with so many things wrong that it cannot be repaired.

PatrickJ · Dec 28, 2015

watchknut
A few quick qualifying questions for the OP.

How many watches have you bought and sold over the years?

Have you had any issues with a grey market watch and service?

Answer PJ
I don't do grey market to save a few bucks I could of worked harder to earn. I have piece of mind.

Have you ever bought a watch that wasn't 100% genuine Omega (and I am not talking about a replaced crown or crystal)?

Answer PJ
No

Have you ever bought a high end watch from a private seller other than an dealer or on the forum?A

Answer PJ
I am not rich. I have one new speedy purchased the correct way and worked for it. I am learning like the rest of us, you should know better. You make it sound like your very experienced you think even more than Omega.

The reason I ask is that your posts, and continued links to FAQs and articles show evidence of a novice collector who is portraying a rather dystopian view of the watch collecting world, and I think that most new collectors need to see both the positives and negatives.

Answer PJ
Follow the may the manufacture tells you. You want to go another way that is your choice.

A majority of sellers are honest folks, and that is a fact. Over the years I have bought and sold 100+ higher end watches ranging from a lowly Tag to PPs and APs, and everything in between. Not one came from an AD or a mainstream dealer, and somehow, all were 100%. It is possible to be very successful as a collector, you just have to educate yourself before jumping into the deep end, and gain valuable experience both buying and selling.

Answer PJ
We can all make claims, I respect your free speech.

Let's be honest about Grey Market Omega watches--we are not talking about complicated Breguet, PP, AP, and other high end watches where grey market has an impact (i.e. a watch sold into the Asian market but serviced being requested by a US owner with no record of duties being paid). We are talking about basic Omegas, ones that should never be sent back to Omega for a service in the first place...honestly, how many people have had to take advantage of a watch warranty? Unless a complete dud, most basic issues can be solved by any competent watchmaker.

Why should they not be sent back to Omega? Well, because Omega charges a premium for service that is not always the best, as seen by efauser's recent experience. All collectors should have an experienced watchmaker that can service their watches and not rely on the AD or Omega service. If you don't have one, a simple thread post will bring suggestions for trusted watchmakers. I have never sent a watch back the factory and steer clear of brands whose parts are super limited--that is the reason I sold my AP ROO, and did not buy a vintage Movado Zenith chronograph that needed a new crystal gasket.

Answer PJ
You show your inexperience right there. You don't think watches should go back to Omega for service. You devalue the brand and make it sound cheap. You fail to acknowledge that the co axial needs delicate care and is a hard movement to service it is not a standard movement. Only authorised service Omega personnel should service it, other older calibres are different.

But parts you say will dry up you say.. .Why on earth would Omega take all of the parts in house? It makes no sense. You think that they want to add thousands of watchmakers to keep up with servicing millions of watches? Hell no. Imagine Toyota or Honda requiring all of their cars be serviced at a dealer...

Sure, they will eventually stop selling case parts, but basic parts will always be available, much like Rolex. Will they be more difficult to obtain, most likely, but will still be available. Rolex locks down their independent watchmakers, and limits what parts can be ordered, they are also under contract not to resell any parts, and if new parts are ordered, are required to do a complete service of the watch. If you are a Rolex watchmaker, you respect Rolex and do not bite the hand that feeds you. Omega will be same.

Answer PJ
Why do you insist on doing everything through the back door.

I hope that you are able to venture into the market on your own one day without hand holding, it is fun, and there are a lot of great watches to be had if you buy the seller first.

PatrickJ · Dec 28, 2015

Pvt-Public
Now if I can just find that 1969 166.028 Seamaster I like at the Boutique.

That is different

Pvt-Public
Now if I can just find that 1969 166.028 Seamaster I like at the Boutique.

Pay it forward.

PatrickJ

tyrantlizardrex

Pvt-Public

mozartman

PatrickJ

PatrickJ

PatrickJ

Davidt

PatrickJ

Davidt

BlackTalon

watchknut

Archer

watchknut

PatrickJ

PatrickJ

Pvt-Public

BlackTalon

PatrickJ

PatrickJ

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