Opening a can of worms

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Inspired by a couple of recent threads relating to the originality of vintage Speedmaster dials, I started to ponder(as is my want).

Focusing on Speedmasters, specifically tritium lumed Speedmasters I started to think about lume as a serviceable item, why not? When you consider that the first of the 2998 dials are 60 years old and lume degrades over time, some more than others. Lume is from my limited knowledge made up of a number of components including tritium, binding agents and adhesive agents that must break down over time.

If a dial is relumed by a professional in an appropriate tone to reflect the correct natural ageing of the lume is that really a bad thing and should it detract dramatically in its value? When you think about it, the lume is such a big part of the Speedy dial and can dramatically change the aesthetics of the dial. Taking this into account doesn't it stand to reason that eventually the lume will have to be replaced on all tritium dialled Speedys or do we put up with the unappealing look of the degraded original lume, or what is left of it on a nice original dial?

I am not talking about repainting the dial, just reluming.

I do have a Speedy that I might consider reluming as the dial is very nice, maybe turning slightly brown but the lume is not very appealing even though it is original.

The watch in question.


Same watch, same photo except enhanced using my advanced digital reluming skills.

 
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first-you-have-to-start-off-with-an-old-beat-up-mercedes-benz-clk-class-like-this-one-check-out-his-sweet-fur-coat-you-know-this-project-is-going-to-be-awesome-note-those-rims-are-_u19h.jpg
 
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I do have a Speedy that I might consider reluming as the dial is very nice, maybe turning slightly brown but the lume is not very appealing even though it is original.

I guess it's not just a matter of ponder as it is of taste and preference. I find your speedmaster with it's original darkened lume quite appealing as-is.
 
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Funny thing if it’s not done well it’s a travesty. Affects price.
If it’s done well it’s a triumph and not frowned at. Doesn’t really effect price.
The fact you can’t get tritium anymore and you want your dial to look better I think go with what you want.

Here is a bigger can of worms
Im having a modern Speedmaster serviced and looking at getting the lume relumed to a tritium look 😉
 
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I’m a big fan of Relume if and when it takes something unattractive and makes it very attractive.

It took a clinical modern dial and gave me this...

 
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I’m a big fan of Relume if and when it takes something unattractive and makes it very attractive.

It took a clinical modern dial and gave me this...


Who done this for you ?
 
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If aged lume is past the point of attractive (I know-subjective), then like @STANDY - I agree, it can be a triumph (if done well). I can't stand the look of dark or moldy lume, so if I don't think I can live with it- I just pass on the watch unless it's a screaming deal and I know it's something I can have done properly.
To the OP's point- lume that doesn't glow anymore technically has "failed" and Omega would probably agree with you. I think it would be a travesty to relume bright and vibrant yellow tritium just becuase it doesn't glow- just buy a modern watch and let someone else enjoy it for what it is.
 
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I’m a big fan of Relume if and when it takes something unattractive and makes it very attractive.

It took a clinical modern dial and gave me this...


Looks better than the original which is way too white imho. May be even more legible? I would have toned the color down a little if it were for me, less striking, more "natural" (if it makes any sense). 👍 anyway.

As for vintage dials and originality, when the "market price" of a watch is 10k and up, just forget about it, it is too tempting (and lucrative) to fake or touch up dials, so get ready for perfect, color coordinated dials at eye watering prices.
 
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While we’re on the subject, can anyone recommend some sympathetic relume services in the US?
 
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Looks better than the original which is way too white imho. May be even more legible? I would have toned the color down a little if it were for me, less striking, more "natural" (if it makes any sense). 👍 anyway.

As for vintage dials and originality, when the "market price" of a watch is 10k and up, just forget about it, it is too tempting (and lucrative) to fake or touch up dials, so get ready for perfect, color coordinated dials at eye watering prices.

I think you should search some of the OPs early posts. He has eye watering in spades. 😗

https://omegaforums.net/threads/my-small-tribute-to-apollo-11.55648/

https://omegaforums.net/threads/the-arrival-of-something-very-very-special.29237/
 
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should it detract dramatically in its value?
I think collectors and aficionados covet the 'all original' pieces; with mechanical repairs/changes the original parts may be provided with the watch, but re-luming would provide no opportunity to make that 'all original' title, thereby possibly reducing the (monetary/investment) value at the least.

As for aesthetics, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I'd be happy for any watch to be brought back to its original intended look and functionality. Though now we enter the realm of 'fauxtina'.

I would love to see you make a 'belt' out of the re-trit-lumed speedy; all the better do find your doughnuts in the dark 😜
 
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I think that the value of a "restored" watch is a very individual issue. Personally, I put a lot of value on originality, and we talk a lot about it on the forum, because there are a lot of serious collectors on OF. However, in practice, I suspect that the market for an unattractive original watch is often smaller than for an attractive restored watch. The dealers here are probably well aware of this. I have occasionally chosen to do some restoration on a watch if I wasn't enjoying the watch in its current condition. When I have sold those watches, I always disclosed exactly what was done. On every occasion I have been surprised in the level of interest from buyers, and those watches sold quickly.
 
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Me personally? It's less to do with color and more to do with consistency. The gray lume in the first example is even across the dial, so it looks quite nice. But, if a watch shows up missing some lume plots or has uneven discoloration, then why not have someone do a proper relume?

Unless stabilized, watches that still have their original tritium lume are still going to degrade until one day, a relume is more desirable - so why not
 
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Here is a bigger can of worms
Im having a modern Speedmaster serviced and looking at getting the lume relumed to a tritium look 😉
I think it's a good move. I've been mulling this over for my modern Speedy. Gostang9's really illustrates how it can give a modern watch a much less sterile look.
 
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I’m a big fan of Relume if and when it takes something unattractive and makes it very attractive.

It took a clinical modern dial and gave me this...

It looks nice! 👍
May i ask how does the new lume perform in comparison to the original lume?
 
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You rang?

my personal thoughts are if it’s trashed lume either missing or ugly mossy then have a pro do it well. I’d prefer in a known color for the year but that’s me. I’ve only seen a handful that have been done well.

it will be obvious for the most part as most will do it in luminova, not old not working vintage tritium mixes. I don’t think any relume would behave like old tritium.
 
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You, need to embrace the concept of wabi sabi, if you desire.

In traditional Japanese aesthetics, wabi-sabi (侘寂) is a world view centered on the acceptance of transience and imperfection. The aesthetic is sometimes described as one of appreciating beauty that is "imperfect, impermanent, and incomplete" in nature.

I, personally, prefer your watch in its original state, showing all its years of literally wear and tear. I have never re-lumed any of my watches and I must admit I do try to find examples that are in the best possible condition, but, there have been exceptions. The fact that so many of us, watch collectors, seek perfection is a simple explanation of why those perfectly preserved dials command the highest price, and also because they are so rare.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and it is your watch. Considering it is YOUR watch, you may do whatever you wish to your watch and don't need our permission or opinion. But, since you asked, if you ever plan to sell your vintage Speedmaster watch it will definitely decrease its value, how much, I don't know and can't predict. You, like so many others, will need to state in your description that the dial has been re-lumed and that will alter the perception of most collectors and a few buyers. There is always a break even point in this consideration as a dial whose tritium plots are absolutely hideously degraded, for example, more than 60% lume missing and what remains is completely black (mold) and stained, I believe the value will not change if re-lumed and in fact may make the watch more desirable to a not overly discerning watch buyer. There is a difference between a collector and a buyer; a collector wants the best possible original condition, whereas a buyer (non watch savant) wants simply a nice looking watch.

Good luck in your decision and I hope this thread helps.

Some wabi sabi in the, case, bezel insert and in hands, plots are consistent in this Rolex 1675


Definition from Wiki-pedia
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