Forums Latest Auctions Members
  1. JimInOz

    JimInOz "Helpful Hints from Heloise" of bracelet cleaning. Sep 22, 2019

    Posts
    10,636
    Likes
    19,527
    Not a real Turtle of course! :rolleyes:

    I recently received a Seiko 6309-7040 that the owner said was losing a bit of time and had a very stiff bezel, in addition to needing a service.

    First thing to do is inspect it for any obvious damage, all is good and this is in very nice condition for its age, DOM January 1981, so 38 years 8 months old.

    Next is to get a couple of shots of the watch.

    VS_FrontLE.JPG

    VS_Back.JPG
    As you can see, it has a nice original SUWA dial in good condition, nicely faded lume and very minimal corrosion on the hands.

    A quick check on the Timegrapher (default settings) just to see what the situation is.

    TG1.JPG

    Well that isn't a good sign. Maybe magnetised? Three passes over the demagnetiser and onto the winder for 12 hours to get some power in the mainspring. Another run on the Timegrapher and not really much difference.

    TG2.JPG

    To check actual time (we know the Timegrapher says it's losing minutes per day) I set it to my GPS controlled Citizen quartz and let it run for 24 hours.

    TimeLost.JPG

    Needless to say, losing about 16 minutes a day isn't a good sign so next I'll open it up and check for any obvious problems/damage.

    Mov1.JPG
    Mov2.JPG

    Nothing to see here, not even signs of a previous service (unless the watchmaker was very careful about scratching screw heads). For the next step, I'll disassemble it and inspect the parts before cleaning.

    But that'll have to wait as it's beer o'clock here so I'll finish off until the next instalment.
     
    fbf, Mad Dog, watchthirst and 20 others like this.
  2. Davidt

    Davidt Sep 22, 2019

    Posts
    5,771
    Likes
    8,934
    Looking forward to the next instalment.

    I can see an 80's Seiko diver in my future actually!
     
  3. JimInOz

    JimInOz "Helpful Hints from Heloise" of bracelet cleaning. Sep 23, 2019

    Posts
    10,636
    Likes
    19,527
    I did intend to do photo journal of this project, much like the professional ones by @Archer, @ChrisN and others.
    However, not having the discipline to stop in the middle of a procedure and photograph it, you will just have to rely on those places where I remember to get the cameras out.

    Anyway, onwards.
     
  4. JimInOz

    JimInOz "Helpful Hints from Heloise" of bracelet cleaning. Sep 23, 2019

    Posts
    10,636
    Likes
    19,527
    Now that we have a baseline on condition and operation I can start the strip down. This is fairly easy, starting from the autowind assembly, the rotor is removed, allowing Seiko’s neat little bi-directional winding system to be exposed. These components are removed and set aside.

    AutoBits.JPG

    The hands will have to be removed, so now that the power is right down and while the stem is still in the watch, the hands are all aligned to make removal simple. The stem is then removed, the movement ring and movement taken out and the movement placed on a cushion to allow hands removal using a dial protector and hand levers. Next the dial feet screws are undone and the dial is taken off. With the dial gone I can remove the tiny circlip holding the day wheel, then the day wheel comes off allowing me to remove the plates holding the date wheel. As these items are taken off they’re placed in appropriate containers to prevent damage.

    DialGear.JPG

    Now we can see the front with all of the parts that control the day and date functions and the time/day/date setting arrangement.

    FrontWorks.JPG

    These are removed and placed in the parts tray leaving only the balance jewel assembly to be removed. This done, we can see the bare front plate. No real problems but the jewels don’t seem to have any oil and the barrel arbor area has a lot of dried out grease around it.

    FrontBare.JPG

    On to the other side. The balance assembly is removed temporarily to allow access to the pallet bridge which is removed, and then off comes the train bridge, which is also the barrel bridge, (the only thing I don’t like about this design). This exposes the full power train and allows removal of the fourth wheel (the one with four holes) and the third wheel (the three holes). Below we find the centre wheel bridge which is removed to allow the centre wheel and the click spring and the barrel to come out. The barrel and mainspring will be discussed later.

    PowerTrain.JPG

    The balance assembly is now replaced on the main plate for cleaning and the inspection and further breakdown will start.

    All of the parts are now safely in a holding tray and individual components can be checked.

    PartsTray.JPG
     
  5. JimInOz

    JimInOz "Helpful Hints from Heloise" of bracelet cleaning. Sep 23, 2019

    Posts
    10,636
    Likes
    19,527
    The barrel and mainspring were "interesting". In addition to lots of hard dry caked grease on the movement where the arbor sits........

    BarrelBadLube.JPG

    ........ the interior of the barrel wasn't much better. It appears that any lube had dried out ages ago, so inhibiting the ability of the unit to deliver optimal power to the movement.

    MSinBarrel.JPG

    Next was a check of the mainspring, in addition to lots of dry grease, it looked tired and had a couple of kinks that shouldn't be there, so maybe a new mainspring is in order.

    MainspringGunk.JPG

    Until next time.
     
  6. JimInOz

    JimInOz "Helpful Hints from Heloise" of bracelet cleaning. Sep 24, 2019

    Posts
    10,636
    Likes
    19,527
    A chilly day here in Melbourne and I couldn't get out on the scoot, so spent some time on the Turtle and now sitting here with an evening Guinness while I bring you (and the owner :D) up to date.

    With all of the parts separated a preliminary inspection didn't show any big problems so it was into baskets ready for cleaning.

    Parts4Cleaning.JPG

    Using my old but trusty watch cleaning machine from the 1950s I gave the parts ten minutes in cleaning solution, then spin dry and into rinse 1, spin again and into rinse 2, spin again.

    CleanMachine.JPG

    and then off to the parts dryer.

    PartsDryer.JPG

    Now that all of the old oil and dirt was gone I could check everything under a microscope. Even after a good bath, some parts STILL had grease residue, notably the mainspring barrel.

    BarrelCrud.JPG

    So it was out with a brush, peg wood and cleaning fluid for a scrub, and then into an ultrasonic bath to remove any residue. Much better now!

    BarrelClean.JPG

    One or two other bits needed the same treatment but now all movement parts are ready to be re-assembled...............as soon as the new mainspring arrives (couple of weeks :().

    A visual inspection of the movement plate, bridges and wheels showed no problems. All jewels are clean and sound, the bushings aren't worn or deformed (especially the barrel arbor bushings, a known 6309 issue) and there's nothing more to do on the movement.

    Here's a pic I took of the main plate. You can't see much but I thought it was a nice shot.

    CleanPlateJewels.JPG

    No rest for the wicked though. I've now got time to turn my attention to the case and the stiff bezel.

    TBC.
     
    scapa, Mad Dog, watchthirst and 13 others like this.
  7. Eve

    Eve Sep 24, 2019

    Posts
    600
    Likes
    1,153
    I love your parts dryer! :) is it a diy?
    good that i kept an old hairdrier from my wife, now i know how to use it meaningfully ;)
     
  8. Archer

    Archer Omega Qualified Watchmaker Sep 24, 2019

    Posts
    17,519
    Likes
    36,764
    Make sure you check that magic lever for wear...

    [​IMG]

    Given the state of the mainspring barrel (debris around the arbor), you should assemble it without the mainspring first, and check the fit between the arbor and the barrel drum and cover. If it appears loose (not talking about end shake, but more side shake) then place it in the movement and install the barrel bridge, and check to see how much the barrel can tilt when inside the movement. If it's more than a few degrees, you should consider a new barrel.

    Cheers, Al
     
    Mad Dog, ChrisN, inchpincher and 2 others like this.
  9. JimInOz

    JimInOz "Helpful Hints from Heloise" of bracelet cleaning. Sep 24, 2019

    Posts
    10,636
    Likes
    19,527
    Thanks for the pointers Al. The hooks on the magic fingers look pretty good.

    Push

    PushLever.JPG

    Pull

    PullLever.JPG

    I put the barrel in the movement and held the arbor lightly to exclude end shake and moved the side of the barrel up and down. There's very little tilt, of course when the arbor is free to move up and down there is more movement but the arbor is a good fit in the plate and the bridge.

    Shot of the arbor in the bridge (barrel pushed down on one side).

    BarrelTilt.JPG

    I think the debris around the arbor areas was dried out grease that had hardened over time and set like cement. When I cleaned it with a brush and cleaning fluid it turned into grey soup!
     
    Yak1, Mad Dog, michael22 and 2 others like this.
  10. jaguar11

    jaguar11 Sep 25, 2019

    Posts
    1,681
    Likes
    13,658
    A nice read while I have my morning coffee.
     
    Speedmasterfan88 likes this.
  11. larryganz

    larryganz The cable guy Sep 25, 2019

    Posts
    2,762
    Likes
    7,776
    A fun read, thanks!
     
  12. JimInOz

    JimInOz "Helpful Hints from Heloise" of bracelet cleaning. Sep 25, 2019

    Posts
    10,636
    Likes
    19,527
    The stiff bezel.

    Not only was the bezel stiff, it wouldn’t rotate past 5 clockwise or about 7 anti-clockwise, so the bezel and glass and associated seals and rings were removed from the case.

    CaseParts.JPG

    The case had some small dings under the bezel path, and a major one at about 5 o’clock which probably contributed to the problem.

    CaseDing.JPG

    The crystal ring also had some corrosion around the 6 area.

    CrystalRingCorrosion2.JPG

    and here

    CrystalRingCorrosion.JPG

    The bezel also had a number of dings, obviously from somebody trying to remove the bezel with a screwdriver (or a jackhammer).

    BezelDing1.JPG BezelDing2.JPG BezelDing3.JPG BezelDing4.JPG

    The bezel dings were stoned down to the true surface and then the base of the bezel was cleaned up on a sheet of 800 polishing paper on a glass plate and finished off with 1200.

    CaseRepair.JPG

    It was then chucked in a 3 jaw chuck on my power drill (like a slow lathe) and I used a soft steel rotary brush to clean the bezel notches and some rust around the 6 area. All that done, it was hand cleaned and on to the case.

    The case ding was removed with a carbide graver and a stone and then the corrosion was polished off.

    CaseDerusting.JPG

    With all parts cleaned, the bezel and case were lightly lubed and the bezel pressed onto the case.

    Bezel Pressing.JPG

    And Voila!



    So now we just have to wait for the new mainspring and the new seals I ordered this afternoon.
     
  13. larryganz

    larryganz The cable guy Sep 25, 2019

    Posts
    2,762
    Likes
    7,776
    I wonder why is the dive bezel bi-directional?
     
  14. ConElPueblo

    ConElPueblo Sep 25, 2019

    Posts
    7,942
    Likes
    21,494
    Carbide tungsten drills?!

    0.jpg
     
    JimInOz likes this.
  15. JimInOz

    JimInOz "Helpful Hints from Heloise" of bracelet cleaning. Sep 25, 2019

    Posts
    10,636
    Likes
    19,527
    :D

    Love Monty, but are you a fan of Eric Olthwaite at all?
     
  16. JimInOz

    JimInOz "Helpful Hints from Heloise" of bracelet cleaning. Sep 25, 2019

    Posts
    10,636
    Likes
    19,527
    The 6309s and others used a ball detent to step the bezel as opposed to uni-directional bezel springs like the later models.

    I guess that in the 1980s Seiko thought that divers wouldn't be carless enough to bump the bezel backwards ;).
     
    Spruce likes this.
  17. JimInOz

    JimInOz "Helpful Hints from Heloise" of bracelet cleaning. Sep 25, 2019

    Posts
    10,636
    Likes
    19,527
    Sorry, I was going to post a couple of photos or the click ball but my Darlin' called me for dinner.

    And the second time when it was announced as "It's on the table NOW!" I thought it best to leave :D.

    Here you go. The spring loaded ball is TINY and held into the case by peening.

    BallClick1.jpeg

    IMG_0029.JPG

    IMG_0030.JPG
     
  18. speedydownunder

    speedydownunder Sep 25, 2019

    Posts
    234
    Likes
    281
    Following!

    :thumbsup:
     
  19. vienna

    vienna Sep 27, 2019

    Posts
    283
    Likes
    530
    Very informative posting, thank you!
    kind regards Max
     
  20. JimInOz

    JimInOz "Helpful Hints from Heloise" of bracelet cleaning. Sep 27, 2019

    Posts
    10,636
    Likes
    19,527

    It's great isn't it.

    ;)

    And if it wasn't for others on our forum who selflessly shared their incredible knowledge, and demonstrated their skills, then I'd still be as much in the dark as many others.

    So to the consummate professionals who have guided me for the last few years, a big thank you, and to all others who have offered tips, or simply encouragement, I thank you too.

    It makes this place what it is.......a fantastic watch community.