Omega Speedmaster 1964 Ed White - Help Required

Ballsgate · Feb 13, 2020

padders
This may be sacrilegious I know but I wonder if that watch is a candidate for a sympathetic dial relume. James Hyman (who is an active poster here) works miracles with dials like that. Not certain it would add value but it might look less tired. I will probably be rightly lambasted for even floating such a heretical idea!

Hi....From reading various threads on here, it always seemed that original everything might be best unless it was too far gone. I've always been happy with the way the watch is and it's taking these 'close up' photos that seems to have brought things to light. You can't see any of this if you're simply looking at it. Perhaps the watch reflects the owner - not too bad at a distance but close up, a relume would probably do me good as well.

Part of me also likes to see/own things that age naturally. It's a 56 year old watch owned by a 57 year old and we've ageing together since 1996. 😀

Thanks for posting.....Nick

Dan S · Feb 13, 2020

padders
This may be sacrilegious I know but I wonder if that watch is a candidate for a sympathetic dial relume. James Hyman (who is an active poster here) works miracles with dials like that. Not certain it would add value but it might look less tired and rather more desirable. I will probably be rightly lambasted for even floating such a heretical idea!

I think that a buyer could certainly have this in mind as an option.

Ballsgate · Feb 13, 2020

BlackTalon
That bezel loos much better now!

And x2 on a relume from one of the masters.

I'm quite relieved there's a 90 with a dot. I was terrified of causing more damage and feared that cleaning it, might make it worse. But voila - much better now.

Cheers.....Nick

padders · Feb 13, 2020

Ballsgate
Hi....From reading various threads on here, it always seemed that original everything might be best unless it was too far gone. I've always been happy with the way the watch is and it's taking these 'close up' photos that seems to have brought things to light. You can't see any of this if you're simply looking at it. Perhaps the watch reflects the owner - not too bad at a distance but close up, a relume would probably do me good as well.

Part of me also likes to see/own things that age naturally. It's a 56 year old watch owned by a 57 year old and we've ageing together since 1996. 😀

Thanks for posting.....Nick

Absolutely, originality is king but in the case of your dial, it looks like the original lume has been removed, ie scraped off. This is called in the collecting community a washed dial (but not in the soap and water sense). In the case of such dials, putting back aged looking non functional lume is rather less extreme than swapping the existing lume for new. In one sense the damage is already done so it is frowned upon less and from a pragmatic POV can lead to a more pleasing result. I could be wrong on the washed dial thing but I don't think I am.

If you will never wear it anyhow though, leave it alone and let the next owner worry about that.

WYO_Watch · Feb 13, 2020

Ballsgate
I think if it was still worth what I paid for it, then I'd certainly feel more comfortable! 😀

If you never sell it, you’ll never be the wiser.

To be honest, I understand your concern and many others on this forum do as well. What one person considers too much value to be worn on a wrist or locked in a safe, another person may consider insignificant (some people only wear watches that cost substantially more).

I am in a camp of collectors who has concerns about wearing expensive pieces as well (and quite frankly don’t have the funds to buy them anyway). However, a piece like yours is attractive to me because it is a great watch that isn’t perfect and I can wear it with less fear than a piece that has serious collector value.

In other words you get the best of both worlds - a vintage historic straight lug piece with the cal 321 for a few bucks more than a modern speedy you don’t have to worry about damaging.

Ballsgate · Feb 13, 2020

Dan S
I think that a buyer could certainly have this in mind as an option.

An option would be an idea and then a purchaser (if there's one out there) can keep it as it is, or 'renew'. I own a number of vintage bicycles and the debate in that community is always whether to leave as is no matter what the condition, or restore/renovate. I'm in the leave as is in that camp as well, but it depends on the age/maker etc.

Thanks again...much appreciated....Nick

Ballsgate · Feb 13, 2020

padders
Absolutely, originality is king but in the case of your dial, it looks like the original lume has been removed, ie scraped off. This is called in the collecting community a washed dial (but not in the soap and water sense). In the case of such dials, putting back aged looking non functional lume is rather less extreme than swapping the existing lume for new. In one sense the damage is already done so it is frowned up less and from a pragmatic POV can lead to a more pleasing result. I could be wrong on the washed dial thing but I don't think I am.

If you will never wear it anyhow though, leave it alone and let the next owner worry about that.

Kind of puzzled as to why would someone remove the lume unless they planned to replace it. Presume it can look a bit tatty once it's started to go. I'm clinging to the idea that the watch is simply well loved/used rather than a Frankenwatch. But that's why I posted here so that I can get a true picture of what I have. Everyone on here has way more experience of these watches than myself as you can probably tell.

All best.....Nick

WYO_Watch · Feb 13, 2020

Ballsgate
I'm clinging to the idea that the watch is simply well loved/used rather than a Frankenwatch.

People have varying definitions of a Frankenwatches. I usually only apply the term to describe watches that are cobbled together from various donors, some “correct” parts and some not, (and in the worst cases, assembled in an attempt deceive a buyer). Watches that have service parts from the manufacturer don’t rise to that level.

So as far as I’m concerned your piece isn’t 100% original, but I wouldn’t call it a Franken.

Ballsgate · Feb 13, 2020

WYO_Watch
If you never sell it, you’ll never be the wiser.

To be honest, I understand your concern and many others on this forum do as well. What one person considers too much value to be worn on a wrist or locked in a safe, another person may consider insignificant (some people only wear watches that cost substantially more).

I am in a camp of collectors who has concerns about wearing expensive pieces as well (and quite frankly don’t have the funds to buy them anyway). However, a piece like yours is attractive to me because it is a great watch that isn’t perfect and I can wear it with less fear than a piece that has serious collector value.

In other words you get the best of both worlds - a vintage historic straight lug piece with the cal 321 for a few bucks more than a modern speedy you don’t have to worry about damaging.

When I first purchased the watch, it didn't seem expensive and so I happily wore it everyday. It did pick up some appreciation interest from watch lovers who spotted it on me but that was that. I then lived in Mexico City for a couple of years and the advice was not to wear it as the watch was more valuable to them than my hand. My wife is Mexican and whilst she and her family always worried about robberies etc, nothing had ever happened. Lovely people although I also didn't feel comfortable flaunting such a thing when the majority have nothing. After that, I got the heebie jeebies in general and into a safe place it went.

As you say, I think this watch though does allow someone to wear a classic Speedmaster without the fear you might have wearing a seriously collectable piece. I tend to buy most things used as I'm always happier if someone else has already added a scratch or a chip (car, bike etc). Somehow, this then allows me to use it without that first chip nightmare!

Many thanks.....Nick

MCC · Feb 13, 2020

That simple cleaning of the bezel has seriously improved the overall look of the watch.

If I was looking to sell it I would do nothing more to it and let the next owner decide what they like.

If I was keeping it I would probably look to have it serviced by a specialist and talk to them about any potential cosmetic improvements.

Radiozoop · Feb 13, 2020

Dan S
Perhaps now that you know it is not as valuable as you thought, you will feel more comfortable owning and wearing it. 👍

THIS! That’s such a cool watch, and I totally understand if OP needs the money but if not I’d wear the hell out of this thing. If you come across another watch guy on the street and you’re wearing an Ed White, conversation will surely happen (maybe even with a few expletives!)

Patrik83 · Feb 13, 2020

First, you do not need to worry that it is all wrong, as it is not.

Besides condition I would add:
- The crown is not a Speedmaster crown (not a big deal)
- Hands have been repainted
- The rest to me looks correct

As some users have said, best is to not do anything with it and let the next owner decide.

But just for fun. If I were to decide I would:
1. Source a correct crown
2. Send for service (not refinish/“polish” the case), repaint and relume the hands and relume the dial.
3. Get a nice strap.
4. Done 😉

Archer · Feb 13, 2020

Ballsgate
Kind of puzzled as to why would someone remove the lume unless they planned to replace it.

If the lume was crumbling and coming off, someone may have simply cleaned it off to prevent it from entering the movement.

Dan S · Feb 13, 2020

Ballsgate
Kind of puzzled as to why would someone remove the lume unless they planned to replace it. Presume it can look a bit tatty once it's started to go.

Yes. Same reason someone might shave his head. 😁

Ballsgate · Feb 14, 2020

Archer
If the lume was crumbling and coming off, someone may have simply cleaned it off to prevent it from entering the movement.

Of course! Must have been done sometime ago as the person I purchased it from, never mentioned this. As you can probably tell, I know next to nothing which means I wouldn't have known what to ask. I trusted him (still do) and it was more about helping him out.

Many thanks....Nick

Als 27 · Feb 14, 2020

Ballsgate
I realised a long time ago that whilst I might be able to afford the purchase cost, I'm not sure I can deal with the ownership worry that such items can bring. It's all down to the individual though. I've kept it stored away for 15 years whereas someone else would have worn and enjoyed it for that time.

As I get older, there's also the thought that should I drop dead, my wife will then have the headache of what to do with it. She's made it clear that's not something she wants to deal with. Strangely, she seemed less concerned with my dropping dead.....

Ballsgate
Like your outlook made me smile & well noted
My wife is just the same when it comes to vintage watches, just how many more do you want or need is her saying
& you can only wear one on your wrist.
it's moments like this i will reply ok then i'll get rid of them & sell them all
her reply is OH NO YOU CAN'T DO THAT !!!! they are valuable
she is as sharp as a knife & you just can't win....
good luck with what ever you decide to do.

Ballsgate · Feb 14, 2020

Patrik83
First, you do not need to worry that it is all wrong, as it is not.

Besides condition I would add:
- The crown is not a Speedmaster crown (not a big deal)
- Hands have been repainted
- The rest to me looks correct

As some users have said, best is to not do anything with it and let the next owner decide.

But just for fun. If I were to decide I would:
1. Source a correct crown
2. Send for service (not refinish/“polish” the case), repaint and relume the hands and relume the dial.
3. Get a nice strap.
4. Done 😉

Thanks for this. Your opening summary has calmed my fears a little bit. Wise words and I would take the route you mentioned if I was to keep it. The incorrect crown would bug me a little bit, although my 'bugginess' might disappear once I found out the cost! I like my strap though.....😀

All best....Nick

Ballsgate · Feb 14, 2020

Als 27
Ballsgate
Like your outlook made me smile & well noted
My wife is just the same when it comes to vintage watches, just how many more do you want or need is her saying
& you can only wear one on your wrist.
it's moments like this i will reply ok then i'll get rid of them & sell them all
her reply is OH NO YOU CAN'T DO THAT !!!! they are valuable
she is as sharp as a knife & you just can't win....
good luck with what ever you decide to do.

Your wife sounds like a keeper! 😀 I have found the reduction of 'stuff' that I have quite liberating really and as long as the item isn't super rare, it can always be replaced subject to funds. That's also my wife's philosophy - I can be replaced, as long as the replacement comes with the funds...😀

Thanks for the post.....Nick

Radiozoop · Feb 14, 2020

Ballsgate
Your wife sounds like a keeper! 😀 I have found the reduction of 'stuff' that I have quite liberating really and as long as the item isn't super rare, it can always be replaced subject to funds. That's also my wife's philosophy - I can be replaced, as long as the replacement comes with the funds...😀

Thanks for the post.....Nick

This is a great way to live. Pretty much all of my watches are subject to trade and/or being sold, except my Omega 2451-7 321 Chronograph. It's my most expensive and rare piece... I actually sold it last year and thought about it everyday and knew immediately that it was a mistake. Luckily the gentleman that bought it didn't buy it to flip, and he ended up contacting me asking if I wanted to buy it back.

Needless to say I jumped at that opportunity and made the promise to myself that the pull for a Speedmaster will never again lure me to selling this watch... It was my first real vintage "find" in the wild. I think I struck gold because I only paid $1800 for it.

Patrik83 · Feb 14, 2020

Ballsgate
Thanks for this. Your opening summary has calmed my fears a little bit. Wise words and I would take the route you mentioned if I was to keep it. The incorrect crown would bug me a little bit, although my 'bugginess' might disappear once I found out the cost! I like my strap though.....😀

All best....Nick

Well the value of a correct crown is roughly £290, so not a big part of the total value.

Omega Speedmaster 1964 Ed White - Help Required

Ballsgate

Dan S

Ballsgate

padders

WYO_Watch

Ballsgate

Ballsgate

WYO_Watch

Ballsgate

MCC

Radiozoop

Patrik83

Archer

Dan S

Ballsgate

Als 27

Ballsgate

Ballsgate

Radiozoop

Patrik83

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