Omega Speedmaster 105.012-65 on an auction this week!

[hansaboy]

Forum Friends - Today is Friday, so why not an auction report!??

This one went down this week.
It is a Speedmaster 105.012-65.
According to the curator, the watch is a one owner, and serviced at least 4 times.
Serial nr checks in correct for the watch,
and with production year 1966, which is my birthday year (Yepp - stupid, I know…)!

The pictures shows a very well used watch, with dents and marks all over the watch.

The crystal is very very scratched, making an assessment of the dial a bit hard,
but talking to the curator, he stated that there where no marks or blemishes on it.
The lume has som degredation and loss on the 4 and the 6.
The minute hand has lost lume, and in need for some attention.
The bezel is uncentered, and has some serious damages at 75, 85 and between 300/350.
The case and caseback has marks and scratches, nothing bothering,
and a possible polish during one of the services.
The backside of one of the lugs had some numbers (watchmaker maybe?) etched in...

There is still visible brushing, which we like!
Pushers are the Short and Fat pushers, but one of the caps had scratches.
The crown is a service crown.
The movement looks fine, with a few screwheads that are damaged.
And it had a very cool bracelet!!

Following the Speedmaster101 (thanks @Spacefruit !) chart:
Dial - Very Good (trusting the auction house!!)
Lume - Good plus
Bezel - Fair minus
Hands - Good minus
Case and caseback - Good
Pushers - Good
Movement - Very Good (after the service)

And also the important - Do You Like the Watch?
Yes - I did!

So I set up my usual Masterplan on this one, calculating in a new crystal, a period correct crown, service etc,
and waited for auction day…

There were quite a few pre- bids, and I followed along, and even went plus one past my Masterplan…
But in the end, another lucky person got it for 9800€ / 10500$ incl the premium!
The next bid would have been 10300 € / 11100$ incl the premium, but that was sadly far from the Masterplan...
This does show that there are people out there who like Speedys, and are starting to bid higher on them???

Enjoy, and please do comment (as usual)!


Cheers from a Snowy Sweden!

 

[padders]

Very nice that. Steep price but it’s the ref that went to the moon first. Personally I don’t like the 32 tooth crown. Opinions vary but as you say I see that as a service replacement. The rest is very nice.

 

[Zman4eva]

I always enjoy reading your auction reports and assessment on the watch. Keep them coming!

 

[hansaboy]

padders

Very nice that. Steep price but it’s the ref that went to the moon first. Personally I don’t like the 32 tooth crown. Opinions vary but as you say I see that as a service replacement. The rest is very nice.

Yepp!

Nice watch, but the price....
And maybe 1500 - 2000 € to have it correct/serviced?

I don't really know much about the cool bracelet regarding value etc!

 

[hansaboy]

Zman4eva

I always enjoy reading your auction reports and assessment on the watch. Keep them coming!

Thanks!

It would have been even better if I had won the bidding...

 

[pdxleaf]

Just for academics:

Bezel is Good, less scratches and nicks than others;
Case is Very Good, bias towards unpolished;
Dial is Good, based on what I can see.

Agree that it's a nice watch. (I bet there's some funk under that bezel, maybe even rust.)

 

[ecarpino]

Really nice example. To be fair with you, I really like the crystal as is. It gives the watch a lot of character!

As per the auction house, sometimes I feel they are lazy, or probably they have too many pieces to care about.. I don't understand why they left it with this very ugly bracelet. With a black deer leather strap, it would have probably attracted more offers. Also, how long would have taken their watchmaker (if they have one) to recenter the bezel? Even though I must say I never really encountered an uncentered bezel, so I don't know how it works.

 

[Patrik83]

@HansGoose22 I agree with your assessment of the watch but to me the bezel is good, not fair. I think that the price it achieved was quite fair.

 

[Dash1]

That’s a lot of money, but people love these new to the market pieces. I like the lume colour a lot and think it’ll be a really nice example after a little service.

 

[Davidt]

I think it’s a stongish price in the current market but that dial has huge potential. What would give me concern is the condition of the dial body. Usually one can determine whether all the marks are on the crystal but in this case I wonder if some are on the dial.

Either the buyer viewed in person and satisfied themselves that the dial is mint, or it’s a slight gamble.

 

[140dave]

I have to say I think some of you are very generous with your grades, Hansaboy has it about right I think. (Assumptions on the dial and movement notwithstanding)

Bezel is Fair- IMO, lots of nicks and marks, plus caved in with that nasty dent at 75.

Hands fair with paint and lume loss; hour lume visibly cracked and minute lume missing and will continue to degrade with every bump.

Case is good at best. Big case opening marks and numbers carved into the lugs, not even close to a very good case IMO.

Dial is atractive but a bit of a gamble with just pictures as others have stated.

I would call that a strong price for sure, I would not pay $10.5 for this watch today.

edit to add: but I like seeing that kind of price achieved at auction!

Edited: Dec 9, 2023

 

[pdxleaf]

140dave

I have to say I think some of you are very generous with your grades, Hansaboy has it about right I think. (Assumptions on the dial and movement notwithstanding)

Bezel is Fair- IMO, lots of nicks and marks, plus caved in with that nasty dent at 75.

Hands fair with paint and lume loss; hour lume visibly cracked and minute lume missing and will continue to degrade with every bump.

Case is good at best. Big case opening marks and numbers carved into the lugs, not even close to a very good case IMO.

Dial is atractive but a bit of a gamble with just pictures as others have stated.

I would call that a strong price for sure, I would not pay $10.5 for this watch today.

edit to add: but I like seeing that kind of price achieved at auction!

This is why I like Hans' posts. It helps to gauge my own opinions against the wider world.

One followup on the bezel. Not sure if this is accurate, but this is part of my calculus.

Spacefruit points out there are different expectations for a 2915 vs a 145.022-69. Meaning, older, more rare watches get a little slack when judging whatvis considered good.

With that in mind, i am seeing more beat up bezels on 105.012 and 105.003s, so when I see one with a few nicks and even some dents, they appear better by comparison. It would not be good or very good on a 145.022-69.

It's possible or even likely that what I am seeing are overall poorer quality being offered, which lowers my grading standards. At the same time, the available watches are aging, which means the categories will adjust to the stock.

Another perspective is that a watch should be compated to what it would have looked like new and that shouldn't change. There are some new, excellent looking pieces in private collections. But if they sit in museums or in private safes, is it still appropriate to use the same standards for the pool of watches that are actually available?

I don't wish to change opinions or justify my ratings. I am willing to agree that I am wrong. Rather, I am attempting to illustrate other factors that influence the grading, not to mention plain old personal biases.

Once again, Hans, good stuff.

 

[140dave]

pdxleaf

This is why I like Hans' posts. It helps to gauge my own opinions against the wider world.

I don't wish to change opinions or justify my ratings. I am willing to agree that I am wrong. Rather, I am attempting to illustrate other factors that influence the grading, not to mention plain old personal biases.

Once again, Hans, good stuff.

I dont think there is a right and wrong on this, I dont think you are wrong for having a different opinion than mine on what justifies Good or Fair, and you are not the only one calling the bezel Good. As you say, just a different perspective and opinion, we all have our particular likes/dislikes when it comes to flaws and age. I just like a good discussion around Speedmasters.

 

[140dave]

pdxleaf

This is why I like Hans' posts. It helps to gauge my own opinions against the wider world.

One followup on the bezel. Not sure if this is accurate, but this is part of my calculus.

Spacefruit points out there are different expectations for a 2915 vs a 145.022-69. Meaning, older, more rare watches get a little slack when judging whatvis considered good.

Once again, Hans, good stuff.

How I look at it is, the value ratio/average I place on the different parts changes with age/model, not how I judge the condition of the individual parts. For example I can accept valuing a 2998 as a Good+ or Very Good- watch overall even when it has only a Fair+ bezel, where I cant on a 145.022-69. A fair bezel is always a fair bezel but how it changes the value/grade of the watch overall changes with age/rarity.

Again this is just how I look at this, it doesnt mean it is correct, It doesnt mean it is the way anyone else does it, but it works for me. Not right, not wrong, just collector conversation and exchanging thoughts. (We dont want Hans saying no one responds to his auction threads!)

 

[NotJackson]

Screw heads look pretty good. If that movement was serviced several times, the service was at least done by somebody who knew how to dress a screwdriver. Suggests a watchmaker of some skill and experience rather than a discount hack.

 

[pdxleaf]

140dave

How I look at it is, the value ratio/average I place on the different parts changes with age/model, not how I judge the condition of the individual parts.

Good point. In the end, it's the overall condition that's important. The rest is just a tool and process.

 

[SoyuzPilot]

I would agree with those that say the bezel is only fair. It's clearly taken a considerable knock and I would be concerned over the long term integrity of the ceramics in the insert. This would be a wearer for me, and I'd be too worried it would fail.

Everything that's important is fair, apart from the dial/hands, but if you replace some parts then it doesn't hang together as a complete watch. It's just too far gone - you can do much better at that price IMHO. Don't be sorry you've missed it, another will come along...

 

[padders]

SoyuzPilot

I would agree with those that say the bezel is only fair. It's clearly taken a considerable knock and I would be concerned over the long term integrity of the ceramics in the insert. This would be a wearer for me, and I'd be too worried it would fail.

Everything that's important is fair, apart from the dial/hands, but if you replace some parts then it doesn't hang together as a complete watch. It's just too far gone - you can do much better at that price IMHO. Don't be sorry you've missed it, another will come along...

Ceramics? There no ceramics in a vintage speedy bezel afaik.

 

[galaxytime]

The bezel sure looks funny with tachymeter being centered over 12:00. That's a first for me.

 

[SoyuzPilot]

padders

Ceramics? There no ceramics in a vintage speedy bezel afaik.

I thought it was some kind of ceramic based black paint over the aluminium - or is it anodized?