Omega „Seachero” or not?

Kiwibloke · May 22, 2022

I'll get right to the point then (although wanted to avoiding direct discussion on the forum). This watch is meant to be a 'Seachero' (whatever the label - a Ranchero with its dial replaced). I was therefore expecting the EoA to show the model as a Ranchero. When it didn't, I queried the basis for it being a 'Seachero' (if an extract doesn't show it as having been produced as a Ranchero model, what other ways are there to verify it?) Hence comment above re CK 2990-1 case and 267 movement...
Trust that help clarify things and my dilemma.
Martin

Kiwibloke · May 22, 2022

Tony C.
Are you suggesting that all watches in those cases, but with Seamaster dials, originally left the factory with Ranchero dials?

I should have said that if that statement isn't correct, then there's no way of verifying this watch was originally a Ranchero... it's a Seamaster with CK 2990-1 case and 267 movement which wasn't what I was interested in owning...

watchyouwant · May 22, 2022

sneer
PVT_PUBLIC I have been added wrong picture with the movement of another omega - now is correct one. Watch i bought in Sweeden but from extract was delivered to Finland.

Oppinion of one of our collegues is :

"To be a 'Seachero' the watch need to originally be a Ranchero model. The dial was then replaced with a Seamaster dial (and some had Railmaster dials - they are highly sought after).
THIS watch was never a Ranchero as established by the EoA - it was produced as and has always been a Seamaster."

And i would like to understood if he is right or me to have clear situation
Thanks in advance for your help!

Correct. Always was a Seamaster. But you can always ask the Factory , if you have a " Seachero ". Interested to see their answer..... Btw: Nice Watch !

sneer · May 23, 2022

Please correct me if I am wrong, but as I understand the Omega Seamaster reference 2990 and 2996 are called "Seachero" by us and this is correct and common - regardless of whether someone has ever changed Ranchero dial to Seamaster in the past or watch left factory originally with Seamaster dial.

We are slowly entering the level of academic discussion - for which I love this forum for years 😀

Tony C. · May 23, 2022

sneer
Please correct me if I am wrong, but as I understand the Omega Seamaster reference 2990 and 2996 are called "Seachero" by us and this is correct and common - regardless of whether someone has ever changed Ranchero dial to Seamaster in the past or watch left factory originally with Seamaster dial.

I believe that to be absolutely correct. And while it makes no difference to me whether or not some collectors choose to assign higher values to a subset that Omega classifies as "Ranchero", I do find it ironic that the preference would be for those that had their dials changed, as opposed to those that are factory original!

ConElPueblo · May 23, 2022

Tony C.
I believe that to be absolutely correct. And while it makes no difference to me whether or not some collectors choose to assign higher values to a subset that Omega classifies as "Ranchero", I do find it ironic that the preference would be for those that had their dials changed, as opposed to those that are factory original!

I think there are two distinct variations here - the ones that had their Ranchero dials changed to Seamaster dials in Sweden and those that were factory equipped with Seamaster dials in the reference commonly thought of as being a Ranchero reference. Is this correct? In that case, the ones that have had their dials changed may be more expensive than the originally Seamaster branded ones, but they sure are a lot less valuable than the Rancheros 😁

gbesq · May 23, 2022

ConElPueblo
I think there are two distinct variations here - the ones that had their Ranchero dials changed to Seamaster dials in Sweden and those that were factory equipped with Seamaster dials in the reference commonly thought of as being a Ranchero reference. Is this correct? In that case, the ones that have had their dials changed may be more expensive than the originally Seamaster branded ones, but they sure are a lot less valuable than the Rancheros 😁

Agree. This has always been my understanding. The significant price premium on the Ranchero is due to its relation to the 1957 trilogy and its general reputation as the “fourth Musketeer.” It’s also just a really attractive watch and the 36 mm 2990 case with its flat case back wears really well.

watchyouwant · May 23, 2022

ConElPueblo
I think there are two distinct variations here - the ones that had their Ranchero dials changed to Seamaster dials in Sweden and those that were factory equipped with Seamaster dials in the reference commonly thought of as being a Ranchero reference. Is this correct? In that case, the ones that have had their dials changed may be more expensive than the originally Seamaster branded ones, but they sure are a lot less valuable than the Rancheros 😁

Omega Importer had Dials swapped in Sweden ? Why Sweden ? Finland? Is that a proven fact or another assumption? Why not asking the Factory? They will know the answer, if the Importer did that....

Davidt · May 23, 2022

Even if it could be proven that a ‘Seachero’ originally had a black Ranchero dial and was subsequently swapped to a Seamaster one, surely there’s no increase in value?

Some interesting history for a collector but zero to minimal actually increase in value IMO.

gbesq · May 23, 2022

Davidt
Even if it could be proven that a ‘Seachero’ originally had a black Ranchero dial and was subsequently swapped to a Seamaster one, surely there’s no increase in value?

Some interesting history for a collector but zero to minimal actually increase in value IMO.

You have to remember that at the time the Ranchero was a marketing and sales disaster for Omega. They couldn't sell them because the Ranchero name was offensive to Spanish speaking cultures. The "Seacheros" were easier to sell because of the association with the Seamaster line. The irony is that because of its poor sales the Ranchero had a production run of less than two years which, in addition to its affiliation with the 1957 trilogy, makes it popular among collectors now. There just aren't that many original examples out there. Seacheros don't command the prices that Rancheros do, but I find very interesting the story behind how they came about and I like the different dial variations.

Davidt · May 23, 2022

gbesq
You have to remember that at the time the Ranchero was a marketing and sales disaster for Omega. They couldn't sell them because the Ranchero name was offensive to Spanish speaking cultures. The "Seacheros" were easier to sell because of the association with the Seamaster line. The irony is that because of its poor sales the Ranchero had a production run of less than two years which, in addition to its affiliation with the 1957 trilogy, makes it popular among collectors now. There just aren't that many original examples out there. Seacheros don't command the prices that Rancheros do, but I find very interesting the story behind how they came about and I like the different dial variations.

I understand and agree with all you say and I think Rancheros are beautiful watches, I’ve been close to pulling the trigger several times. However, I still don’t believe that a Seachero should command any premium over a regular 2990 Seamaster. Why would they?

Does the market disagree? Is there evidence of premiums being paid for Seacheros vs standard 2990’s?

gbesq · May 23, 2022

Davidt
I understand and agree with all you say and I think Rancheros are beautiful watches, I’ve been close to pulling the trigger several times. However, I still don’t believe that a Seachero should command any premium over a regular 2990 Seamaster. Why would they?

Does the market disagree? Is there evidence of premiums being paid for Seacheros vs standard 2990’s?

I don't have any conclusive evidence that a Seachero should sell at a premium, but it seems to me that they usually do just based on what I have seen on OF and other forums, eBay, C24, etc. One thing that I do know is that Seamaster 2990 cases and, to a lesser extent, 2996 cases, do sometimes sell at a premium because buyers who want to "build" a Ranchero want the case. There are also a limited number of double stamped 2990/2996 cases and those seem to be particularly in demand and sell quickly when listed.

Davidt · May 23, 2022

When you say Seachero, are you referring to any 2990/2996 Seamaster or just those where it can be proven or likely that they started life as a Ranchero?

gbesq · May 23, 2022

Davidt
When you say Seachero, are you referring to any 2990/2996 Seamaster or just those where it can be proven or likely that they started life as a Ranchero?

The latter.

Davidt · May 23, 2022

Right. I kinda get that nickname. I still don’t think it deserves a premium but if the market think differently who am I to argue.

I assume the extract needs to list the model as a Ranchero then?

gbesq · May 23, 2022

Davidt
Right. I kinda get that nickname. I still don’t think it deserves a premium but if the market think differently who am I to argue.

I assume the extract needs to list the model as a Ranchero then?

Yes.

tdn-dk · May 23, 2022

Davidt
Right. I kinda get that nickname. I still don’t think it deserves a premium but if the market think differently who am I to argue.

I assume the extract needs to list the model as a Ranchero then?

The extract will be rejected I think, if the archive says delivered with Ranchero dial and the picture says Seamaster. Thats the normal procedure now a days.
BUT I dont think they know what left the factory when comes to the dials.
In the old days before they demanded pictures you just had to give the serial and ref. number and it would return as a Ranchero, despite it had a Seamaster dial.
But remember that we have seen no proff for the Swedish Transformed Ranchero's, it it only a theory.

Davidt · May 23, 2022

Regarding the “is this a Seachero” question, it sounds like the main issue is there’s no universally accepted definition of what a Seachero is. Depending who you ask it’s either;
1. A watch that started out as a Ranchero but subsequently had its dial swapped for a service Seamaster dial (always with round logo?).
2. Any 2996/2990 Seamaster as they share a case with the Ranchero.
3. A ref 2937 Seamaster with black Rachero style dial.

Personally I’d say to qualify as a Seachero the watch should have started out as a Ranchero. However, from what @tdn-dk says, it’s sounds like it may now be hard to prove this.

Because we all love photos
Example of 1.