Omega Extract... can it be trusted?

MSNWatch

Is the serial cut-off only for cal. 320/321 movements or for all omega movements?
There are a few serious omega collectors who rely greatly on this information for early vintage omegas and have been consistently successful (from what I have gathered at least) in obtaining a movement serial - case reference match mostly by only providing the movement serial with the rest of the information being provided by omega. I personally don't order extracts on my watches and instead check that it is the correct movement for the case and the serial is in the correct range from what I have observed. I'm fairly confident that 95% or more of my vintage omegas will correctly match if the extract is ordered. Also, while for a few it is vital that movement serial match case reference I just wonder where does it end? Would you then be equally serious about the exact dial and hands and crown and bezel being original to that exact particular watch or is it ok to find a similar period correct dial/hands/crown/bezel?

speedy4ever

I think it concerns all Omega movements made by Lemania.

Vital? At least it's a matter of money. One can find "cheap" Seamasters for sale in the same serial range blocks as CK 2915's or CK 2998's. From this point, it's not necessary to explain more in details what can happen and for sure happened. It's a 2915, but in case Omega recovers information, you will receive an extract stating that it's a Seamaster. Nothing incorrect, but in case of sale, you will loose a lot.

I almost bought a Ploprof a while ago, but after checking it happened that the movement was from another Seamaster having the 1002. For this reason I did not buy it. May be I am stupid?

MSNWatch

I am more a purist at heart than not and prefer the watch to be as original as possible and I suspect most serious vintage omega collectors are. I just wonder how much of the emphasis we place on this match is because the information to verify it exists whereas no such match exists for dial or bezel so we feel it's ok to swap those out and replace them with period correct pieces. I think the dial is just as important to the value of a vintage piece as the movement and the case - if the dial had its own serial number that was recorded would it then be just as important to match it to the case reference as well? Just something I've wondered about for some time now.

gatorcpa

I 100% agree with you on this point, MSN.

Here's an example. I own a nice Rolex Oyster Perpetual. It's not perfect...it came with an incorrect caseback and I had to find a salvage caseback with the correct case reference.

gatorcpa

Not this time. I have a gold-capped 6634 from 1959. The case back was from a 1005 and was dated "II 1966".

It fit well, but the seller was also selling a 1005. I suspect the buyer of that watch got my caseback.

gatorcpa

gatorcpa

I 100% agree with you on this point, MSN.

Here's an example. I own a nice Rolex Oyster Perpetual. It's not perfect...it came with an incorrect caseback and I had to find a salvage caseback with the correct case reference. But the movement is excellent and keeps chronometer grade time. As you know, older Rolexes are not dated by movement serial number. Instead, they are tracked by case serial number.

Since Rolex has never released the records of which movement serial number went with which case number, it is impossible to determine if a particular movement is original. I guess when Rolex serviced watches back then, it would be common to swap movements if there was a major problem and fix it later.

As a result, I've been told that my watch is worth about $1,200 as is, but I were to remove the movement and sell it separately, it could fetch up to double that amount. Why? It is a caliber 1030 automatic, which was used in far more collectible Rolexes like the early Submariners. These can go for $20,000 and more at auction. If one has a broken 1950's Submariner, it would be much easier to buy my movement and drop it in, than to source the parts needed to fix the original movement. The salvaged parts from the original that will work have a decent value on their own, since many of the parts for these older Rolex movements are almost unobtainable.

Since there is no way to match the movement serial to case serial numbers (without the original COSC documentation -- very rare), most Rolex collectors would be satisfied so long as the correct cal. 1030 movement is inside and properly working. Therefore, working movements from less valuable Rolex variants are worth far more in the marketplace than complete watches.

Supply and demand, that's how the market works.
gatorcpa

speedbird

It was more common than not for Rolex to put whatever caseback they had in the parts bin on the 34mm models. This is why you see 5500s with 1002 more often than not. id put $20 on your mismatched case back being original to your watch

speedy4ever

You are right that dial and sometimes bezel are as important. In fact they are visually even more important than movement and its serial.Probably if the identification at Omega was based on dial serial number, that would be as much important. But in that case you could not swap a Speedmaster dial with a Seamaster dial.


Let's go back to real situation.

Both criteria are important:
- original/correct parts account for the watch look
- serial accounts for its "official" identity
- both are important (at various levels) for your wallet.

But I would prefer a very good 2915 with all original/correct parts and a Seamaster movement (impossible to prove actually), than a 2915 with correct s/n, but service dial, hands and bezel.