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Newbee question (about mainsprings)...

ChrisN
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I would redo the 0H test for PU as you are seeing more amplitude after 24 hours which doesn't make much sense.

Hairspring adjustments are not easy (as you know) so, don't think about that latest comment any further. There are lots of tricks with a Breguet overcoil but, you will likely introduce a different issue. I see that Al is guiding you here so, will let him talk about possible improvements to make that don't involve the hairspring itself.

I think you've done well and I suspect you are in Omega specifications already. It's Sunday night and I don't have them in hand but 24 seconds over 6 positions at 0H and 30 seconds at 24H must be in spec. You also have averages to meet between 0H and 24H and I think you're in that. As I say, I'll let Al advise but I would be inclined to leave this. Sometimes, you can chase your tail...

Cheers, Chris
 
PaulHelmuth
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ChrisN ChrisN
I would redo the 0H test for PU as you are seeing more amplitude after 24 hours which doesn't make much sense.

Hairspring adjustments are not easy (as you know) so, don't think about that latest comment any further. There are lots of tricks with a Breguet overcoil but, you will likely introduce a different issue. I see that Al is guiding you here so, will let him talk about possible improvements to make that don't involve the hairspring itself.

I think you've done well and I suspect you are in Omega specifications already. It's Sunday night and I don't have them in hand but 24 seconds over 6 positions at 0H and 30 seconds at 24H must be in spec. You also have averages to meet between 0H and 24H and I think you're in that. As I say, I'll let Al advise but I would be inclined to leave this. Sometimes, you can chase your tail...

Cheers, Chris

@ChrisN,

Thank you sir - for you many contributions and kind words. I was also thinking that the initial 0H PU amp must have been some kind of err - after seeing the 24H reading. Easy enough to recheck though. I will post if that reading is repeatable.

I totally agree with your remarks on hairsprings. I haven't really even gotten to the point of trying to make adjustments and have met with some pretty difficult challenges. The only thing I have been able to do thus far, is to mess up a perfectly good one.

I do believe that ultimately, developing some skill manipulating hairsprings would be invaluable - even if it's very difficult to do.

Let's see what Al has to say - and I may not do anything to adjust this in the short term. As I would enjoy wearing it very much as-is. And I have plenty to work on to recover the original balance. And with the watch in wearable condition, I have no reason to rush that process.

Many thanks!
-Paul
 
Deafboy
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PaulHelmuth PaulHelmuth
Any usual suspects to investigate for that?.
Look at my November 24 response on isochronism. Pin separation has a very important influence on the timekeeping performance. Since The watch runs faster at low amplitude, it could be the hairspring is not centered between the pins. Also, separating the pins a tiny amount might help. The idea is to have the hairspring not touching the pins at low amplitude; the hairspring is effectively longer and reduces the rate.
 
PaulHelmuth
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Deafboy Deafboy
Look at my November 24 response on isochronism. Pin separation has a very important influence on the timekeeping performance. Since The watch runs faster at low amplitude, it could be the hairspring is not centered between the pins. Also, separating the pins a tiny amount might help. The idea is to have the hairspring not touching the pins at low amplitude; the hairspring is effectively longer and reduces the rate.

@Deafboy,

Thank you for the call-back on that. I am certain that the last section of the over-coil (that should track through the regulator pins) doesn't track perfectly with the arc of the regulator. Though not off horribly either (by my novice estimation). I believe that the medial (central) side of the hairspring is probably maintaining contact with the pin on it's side. I know that isn't ideal. But thought it mostly a problem when regulating the speed. In this case I don't think that contact/non-contact is changing with amplitude, but I am not certain.

Thank you for all of your input!

-Paul
 
Archer
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PaulHelmuth PaulHelmuth
@Deafboy,

Thank you for the call-back on that. I am certain that the last section of the over-coil (that should track through the regulator pins) doesn't track perfectly with the arc of the regulator. Though not off horribly either (by my novice estimation). I believe that the medial (central) side of the hairspring is probably maintaining contact with the pin on it's side. I know that isn't ideal. But thought it mostly a problem when regulating the speed. In this case I don't think that contact/non-contact is changing with amplitude, but I am not certain.

Thank you for all of your input!

-Paul

From a post I made on page 3...

"So the gap on either side should be about 1/2 the thickness of the spring. The coils must be centered and flat, everything concentric, and the spring needs to be centered between these pins."

So once you have confirmed your timing checks (checking for errors as noted because of the amplitude changes) then the next thing is to let the power down on the movement, let the balance come to rest, and check what you have for centering of the spring between the regulating pins. Once you get it centered, run your timing tests again...

In my experience, if you have done all the right thins with respect to adjusting the balance spring and regulating pins, and have a fairly low Delta, the isochronism issues will take care of themselves.

BTW as Chris pointed out, you are well within Omega specs for Delta - the allowed Delta at full wind, measured over only 3 positions is 40 seconds, and at 24 hours after full wind it's 50 seconds, so a rather large tolerance for sure.

Cheers, Al
 
PaulHelmuth
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Archer Archer
From a post I made on page 3...

"So the gap on either side should be about 1/2 the thickness of the spring. The coils must be centered and flat, everything concentric, and the spring needs to be centered between these pins."

So once you have confirmed your timing checks (checking for errors as noted because of the amplitude changes) then the next thing is to let the power down on the movement, let the balance come to rest, and check what you have for centering of the spring between the regulating pins. Once you get it centered, run your timing tests again...

In my experience, if you have done all the right thins with respect to adjusting the balance spring and regulating pins, and have a fairly low Delta, the isochronism issues will take care of themselves.

BTW as Chris pointed out, you are well within Omega specs for Delta - the allowed Delta at full wind, measured over only 3 positions is 40 seconds, and at 24 hours after full wind it's 50 seconds, so a rather large tolerance for sure.

Cheers, Al

Al,

Thanks so much.

It would seem that I am not "listening". When the truth is - I just don't have enough experience to be able to take mental note of all of the important details that you guys have so generously shared. But I feel like I have gained a LOT of information and understanding doing this "simple little service" 😁

All thanks to @Archer, @Deafboy, @ChrisN, @JimInOz, and all of the forum members that take the time to share their invaluable knowledge.

It appears that all of my balances require some hairspring manipulation to make fully correct. So, I will leave the current balance in place (since the watch is perfectly wearable - even if not perfectly serviced). I will leave the NOS balance in the package - and slowly try to figure out how to get the original hairspring pinned tightly to the collet. From there, then work on sorting out the shape.

I would welcome any comments on tools and techniques that you find helpful for such work. At this point, I am thinking about trying to sharpen the shaft of that fine oiler (the one with the tip broken off - that I tried to use earlier) so that it is small enough to push on the pin. As previously mentioned - this conceptually simple operation is very challenging in practice. Especially for someone with no practice. 😁

Wishing all a Very Merry Christmas and Happy New Year in 2020.
Peace to all mankind.

-Paul
 
Eve
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I dont know how i missed this thread, been a bit busy lately. But i read all 7 pages now on a single breath! 😀
Thumbs up for your patience and to all the great Members here for the valuable input! Allways happy to read and learn from these threads! 👍
Thank you!
 
PaulHelmuth
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Eve Eve
I dont know how i missed this thread, been a bit busy lately. But i read all 7 pages now on a single breath! 😀
Thumbs up for your patience and to all the great Members here for the valuable input! Allways happy to read and learn from these threads! 👍
Thank you!

@Eve,

So glad that you (and some other forum members) have gotten some enjoyment from this thread.

All credit to the wonderful members here that are so generous with their time and knowledge.

No one has enjoyed it as much as I have. My favorite thing to do in life - is to learn something new about something in which I am interested. And boy have I learned a bunch so far!

There are still some critical bits for me to work out - regarding hairspring truing/tuning. So, sure to be more posts added concerning that.

Thank you!
-Paul
 
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