New speedmaster 3861 SS. Quality control issues.

[Dan S]

A Al_Snoopy

I would kindly disagree, it's not BS. It's visible to the naked eye. To reinforce this, when the time is set at 6 o'clock , the hour marker is slightly to the left of the 30min lume mark. Which further shows that the dial is slightly rotated counter-clockwise.

You think you can use the hands to determine if the dial is aligned?

The dial is rotated with respect to what? The bezel?

I think you don't understand how watches are constructed.

All of these things will always be slightly misaligned, unless they are perfectly aligned by coincidence. The movement is mounted in the case, not perfectly aligned. The dial is mounted on the movement, pretty much perfectly aligned. The bezel is mounted on the case, not perfectly aligned. The hands are mounted using the dial as a guide, not perfectly aligned.

 

[ErichPryde]

I have to agree with the group here questioning your use of cad. The image is not aligned versus camera grid, and I still want to know how the 60 and 120 on the bezel are also off by about the same amount as you say the dial is.

Please provide add'l pictures with the camera grid lined up with the lugs and then with a perfect 90° line bisecting the image into left and right.

 

[Al_Snoopy]

Dan S

You think you can use the hands to determine if the dial is aligned?

The dial is rotated with respect to what? The bezel?

I think you don't understand how watches are constructed.

Right. Let's see if I understand:

Alignment of the hour and minute marks happen at 12 o' clock. So the watchmaker aligns them all at 12. If the dial is slightly rotated in either direction, then the hour hand wouldn't align perfectly with all the hour marks, it will be slightly off.

 

[ErichPryde]

SC1

Agreed... OP wants perfectly perfect perfection when it comes to dial/chapter ring/bezel alignment he need not go any further than Seiko.

What's a seiko?

 

[ErichPryde]

A Al_Snoopy

Right. Let's see if I understand:

Alignment of the hour and minute marks happen at 12 o' clock. So the watchmaker aligns them all at 12. If the dial is slightly rotated in either direction, then the hour hand wouldn't align perfectly with all the hour marks, it will be slightly off.

I've heard of this issue before, certainly. Can you demonstrate that with the watch running normally with the minute and seconds hand at exactly 12:00 and the hour hand at a non 12:00 number?

Also would love to see those pictures with the image perfectly aligned with a new CAD line....

 

[Dan S]

A Al_Snoopy

Right. Let's see if I understand:

Alignment of the hour and minute marks happen at 12 o' clock. So the watchmaker aligns them all at 12. If the dial is slightly rotated in either direction, then the hour hand wouldn't align perfectly with all the hour marks, it will be slightly off.

It's not that simple. The alignment is never perfect because of backlash. A certain amount of error is within specs. And anyway, a simple dial rotation would not affect alignment of hands. Everything would just be uniformly rotated.

 

[Dan S]

ErichPryde

I've heard of this issue before, certainly. Can you demonstrate that with the watch running normally with the minute and seconds hand at exactly 12:00 and the hour hand at a non 12:00 number?

Also would love to see those pictures with the image perfectly aligned with a new CAD line....

If we start doing this with every watch we own, I guarantee that some amount of misalignment will be observed in almost all of them.

 

[SC1]

Dan S

If we start doing this with every watch we own, I guarantee that some amount of misalignment will be observed in almost all of them.

As I was once told about watches (but it pretty much applies to everything in life)...

"Look occasionally and be happy... look repeatedly, go insane."

 

[Al_Snoopy]

ErichPryde

I have to agree with the group here questioning your use of cad. The image is not aligne

Please provide add'l pictures with the camera grid lined up with the lugs and then with a perfect 90° line bisecting the image into left and right.

ErichPryde

I've heard of this issue before, certainly. Can you demonstrate that with the watch running normally with the minute and seconds hand at exactly 12:00 and the hour hand at a non 12:00 number?

Also would love to see those pictures with the image perfectly aligned with a new CAD line....

 

[Scarecrow Boat]

A Al_Snoopy

I see the reasoning behind the question

What you are proving is that your hands are not aligned properly. Move the hour hand so it is perfectly aligned with the marker. You’ll see how far off the minute hand is.

 

[SC1]

A Al_Snoopy

Can you shoot that same photo *but* get the main second's hand out of the way -- have it be somewhere between 6 & 7 please?
I'd like to see this again with the main minute's hand fully visible.

 

[Dan S]

SC1

Can you shoot that same photo *but* get the main second's hand out of the way -- have it be somewhere between 6 & 7 please?
I'd like to see this again with the main minute's hand fully visible.

It's just misalignment of the hands, as Aaron said. May or may not be within spec, but the OP will have to follow Aaron's directions to find out how many minutes off it is. And should do the same at 12.

 

[ErichPryde]

Dan S

If we start doing this with every watch we own, I guarantee that some amount of misalignment will be observed in almost all of them.

I think that's highly likely. I'm not trying to defend either the op here or Omega so much as point out that the current methods of examination that have been used are perhaps not stringently scientific enough, while trying not to be.... completely dismissive.


As a side note and someone who was a moderator on a totally different form in the past I can't help but note that there are a lot of nitpicky complaint threads like this specifically about the current gen moonwatch, and I'm having difficulty deciding whether or not this is simply because that watch is so popular and many new people are getting into Omega, or if it is because that it is a common trolling tactic the Omega community deals with.

No implications meant vs you here, OP- just wandering thoughts on that topic.

 

[Al_Snoopy]

SC1

Can you shoot that same photo *but* get the main second's hand out of the way -- have it be somewhere between 6 & 7 please?
I'd like to see this again with the main minute's hand fully visible.

 

[SC1]

ErichPryde

I think that's highly likely. I'm not trying to defend either the op here or Omega so much as point out that the current methods of examination that have been used are perhaps not stringently scientific enough, while trying not to be.... completely dismissive.


As a side note and someone who was a moderator on a totally different form in the past I can't help but note that there are a lot of nitpicky complaint threads like this specifically about the current gen moonwatch, and I'm having difficulty deciding whether or not this is simply because that watch is so popular and many new people are getting into Omega, or if it is because that it is a common trolling tactic the Omega community deals with.

No implications meant vs you here, OP- just wandering thoughts on that topic.

Not just Omega... spend time at any watch brand specific forum and you'll see it.
The commonality is always, "New Guy" and/or "New Guy and New To Watches".

 

[Scarecrow Boat]

Scarecrow Boat

your hands are not aligned properly. Move the hour hand so it is perfectly aligned with the marker. You’ll see how far off the minute hand is.

OP, here are a few examples of my own. Hand misalignment is common. Both my Sub and Datejust had them as well. Here are a few examples of other watches of mine that have it. I’m sure my 3861 does as well but I’m wearing that one currently so I’m not going to fiddle with the time to show it. You’ll always find misalignment to a degree. Omega will determine if it is in spec or not. But again, that’s what warranties are for.

Edited: May 6, 2023

 

[SC1]

A Al_Snoopy

As per @Dan S and @Scarecrow Boat ... align that hour's hand NOT the minute's hand.

 

[Dan S]

ErichPryde

It's very likely that even if your house was a million or even


I think that's highly likely. I'm not trying to defend either the op here or Omega so much as point out that the current methods of examination that have been used are perhaps not stringently scientific enough, while trying not to be.... completely dismissive.


As a side note and someone who was a moderator on a totally different form in the past I can't help but note that there are a lot of nitpicky complaint threads like this specifically about the current gen moonwatch, and I'm having difficulty deciding whether or not this is simply because that watch is so popular and many new people are getting into Omega, or if it is because that it is a common trolling tactic the Omega community deals with.

No implications meant vs you here, OP- just wandering thoughts on that topic.

A substantial fraction of new members specifically join to complain about their new Omega. Rarely, the complaint is legit, but usually it is unbelievably trivial. The common refrain is essentially "this is a luxury watch, and therefore it should be perfect." Many of them are obsessive and have no idea how watches work or are assembled, and they fundamentally fail to recognize that their new watch is a mid-market mass-produced item with modest QC specifications. It gets old.

 

[Dan S]

Scarecrow Boat

OP, here are a few examples of my own. Hand misalignment is common. Both my Sub and Datejust had them as well. My Sub was 12 minutes out of alignment. Here are a few examples of other watches of mine that have it. I’m sure my 3861 does as well but I’m wearing that one currently so I’m not going to fiddle with the time to show it. You’ll always find misalignment to a degree. Omega will determine if it is in spec or not. But again, that’s what warranties are for.

In my defense, I never claimed that the Titus was serviced.

 

[Scarecrow Boat]

Dan S

In my defense, I never claimed that the Titus was serviced.

Heh! To be fair, I never expect hand alignment to be perfect