Hi Everyone, after lurking around on the forums for a while now, I thought I would share my first purchase with you!

I'm very much a noob but this one was doing a 'buy me! buy me!' dance in the corner of the top shelf in a small clock repair/restoration shop in a village near to me, and I just brought it ... I know, I know but I liked it and well, it's mine now.

From what information I've been able to garner, I'm pretty sure I have a 1952 Omega Seamaster Automatic Cal 354 (Bumper) C 2577-6 SC with Black Hobnail ‘Clous de Paris’ Dial, possibly faded script on the face (more about that later). It has applied Gilt Arrowhead indices, Dauphine Hands, Red Laquer Second Hand, Omega Crown, Stainless Steel 36mm Case, Engraved ‘Seamaster’ on the case back, no Hippocampus which is correct for year of manufacture.

The Crystal is a replacement as the original was signed but had a crack across it, the seller tried to obtain a genuine but couldn't find one (are they still available?) and the original strap had long gone but I liked the replacement Hirsch which had been put on.

There are at least ten service marks inside the case back and it's running very accurately, so far no loss/gain at all over 5 days, not even a second and, most importantly ... I love it!

I could do with your feedback on a few things I haven't been able to figure out for myself and would also appreciate any pointers on things I may have missed.

Do indentations on the hands and the slots on the arrowheads mean the lume has been removed? It definately doesn't glow even after holding under a strong light to 'charge it'. There's no No T prefix before Swiss Made so does this mean that there was once radium? I believe Tritium only came in at the end of the 1950's. There's also a small bit of corrosion or maybe the red lacquer has flaked off in the centre of the second hand.

I'm not sure what's going on with the script on the dial as under certain light it stands out very clear but otherwise disappears, I've tried to catch it in a photo but not having much luck, underneath the Omega Logo it says Omega above a smaller font Automatic with Seamaster and Swiss Made lower on the dial. Does this make it a Ghost Dial'?

I can't find the precise model number description anywhere online so I'm not sure what the C prefix or the 6 means, I'm hoping that someone with more experience in these things will be able to help as I've gone through so many serial databases they're all starting to blend into one.

Thanks in advance for any help guys, I hope the photos do it justice.

 

That's quite the first purchase, starting off with a black hobnail dial Seamaster...

Regarding your questions: The "T" marking was introduced in the early 60s (I believe somewhere around 61/62, and got mandatory 1-2 years later? Happy to be corrected if I got it wrong by a year or so, but early 60s is about the right ballpark). Your watch, being a child of the early 50s, would have had radium.

Dissolved radium lume plots aren't unheard of - but their complete absence often indicated a redial. It's hard to judge with your example and what's left of the text, but to me it looks ok. The dial might have been "cleaned" at some point, which could be the reason for the vanished text and lume. The greenish lume in the hands look like they were relumed.

Don't give too much meaning to the "-6" after the reference number. It's a subreference (which goes up to the double digits), but it's not like all 2577-6 look identical.

Your watch seems to have an incorrect rotor, by the way, as it's one of a chronometer certified cal. 354. It might have been used as a replacement when the correct one gave up. There won't be a difference in it's performance, it's just that the correct one doesn't read "Adjusted in 5 positions". Alternatively, this might be a complete chronometer certified 354 that was transplanted into your watch. Either way, something is incorrect.
Your crown is also a replacement, it would've come with a clover crown, and I have my doubts about the red second hand.

But. It's still a black hobnail. It's got a case that shows wear, but also it hasn't been overpolished. Assuming you haven't overpaid, this might absolutely be a fun watch to wear. Yes, there are condition issues, but if the price was right what the heck. It's still a hell of a first Omega to buy.

As a comparison, here's a picture of two of mine. A black hobnail 2782 Constellation that, too, has text that faded, partly beyond recognition. Next to it is my 2577, same configuration as yours. Welcome to a small club.

 

You have some seriously nice watches there MtV, I particularly like the one on your wrist, the steel bracelet compliments it very well.

Thanks for the information too, I had my own suspicions about a redial but on closer inspection and with an example to compare with I think there is still quite a bit of Lume in place, it's a bit like the lettering, if you hold a light at just the right angle, everything becomes clearer. I've spotted a couple of similar watches online with the red second hand so thought it correct for this style although I did notice a 50/50 split with the clover crowns so wasn't sure which was correct. They were also described as 'Ghost Dials' so I'm guessing people just want to clean them up to see those hobnails.

I have no idea what a good price for these would be as I just saw the watch, realised I hadn't seen one like it before and decided that I had to start my collection at some point and if it turned out to be a duffer then so be it. I paid £745 including service and replacement Crystal but regardless of the price, I'm happy with the watch as it is (That Crown though, I think I may have to change that.) and I can always ask the watchmaker to look for a rotor for me in preparation for its next service, the main point for me is that I have now started my collection and the more I learn, the better watches I will acquire in the future. I'm enjoying finding out the history of this watch and just knowing it's been serviced fairly regularly over the last 70 years enough for someone to keep it going, makes me proud to own it despite a few issues.

Great to be part of the club

 

Well done
I think your new acquisition looks very nice and you’ll enjoy wearing it.

Given the service, the condition of the watch and the rarity value of a seventy year old watch in that condition I think you’ve probably done alright price wise.

I attach a couple of photos for comparison purposes. My 1954 354 bumper is not a chronometer and is not marked as such, either on the bridge or the dial but, finding parts can be difficult and it may just be a handy replacement. The case is a 2767.

I also attach a photo of my 2577 caseback although my watch, a 1950 model, has a 351 movement.

 

It's common practice for the crown to be replaced at a service for the sake of waterproofness. That's why you see so many with replacements - but "correct", as in "the way it left the factory", would only be the clover crown.

Watch people come up with all kind of terms for dials that have experienced some kind of deterioration, both natural and artifical. I've also seen other examples with faded text, but tbh. I do have doubts that happened through natural aging - I suspicion is rather some kind of dial cleaning. And in a description, "ghost dial" does sound a lot cooler than "significantly faded".

In short, I'd second what @Spruce says: 745GBP doesnt sound too bad.
In a few words: Hard to say. While 2577s can be found for 500GBP or so, textured dials are much more sought after among collectors. The hobnail texture is more sought after and rarer than the finer "honeycomb" or "waffle" structure. And black is the most sought after and most uncommon dial color, most black dials you'll find online are actually redials and not original. Adding all those factors, I wouldnt be surprised to see a good to very good (and of course original) example go for ~2000€. The only one I've seen recently from about that period (but with a date on 6) sold on auction actually broke the 2k barrier significantly. That being said, the people who'd go after such an example would be properly nerdy enthusiasts. This isn't meant to be derogatory - I'll happily include myself to that group. But those collectors will value originality and condition very, very highly, so the effect that a cleaned/faded dial will have on the price is significant, easily decreasing the price by half or more. The price you paid sounds about where I'd expect this to land in a no-reserve auction in the UK.

If I were you, I also wouldn't put in much effort to find the correct rotor for it, by the way. The crown is a different story, as it makes a difference aesthetically. They can be picked up from eBay relatively easily for not too much money. If you do want to go full period correct, make sure the crown has a "flat feet" Omega logo, instead of the newer service replacements that have the same clover shape but an Omega logo with tiny ends pointing upwards at the tip of the "feet". I told you this is a nerdy hobby.

Also, black hobnail 2577s (or black hobnail Omegas at all) are so uncommon that it's hard to give an exact price. Currently, there are two examples online that I'm aware of, both on C24.

Number 1 is the same configuration as yours, dial isn't in too bad shape, but the case looks a bit rough and it's certainly not "very good". Asking price is ~2900€ or so and it's been sitting there unsold for months.


Number 2 is a gold-capped example. Note that gold-capped is usually less desirable than stainless steel. This one also has a red second hand, a very faded dial (euphemistically called "Ghost dial"), some condition issues and is rather optimistically priced at just over 4000€, easily more than tripple of what it's actually worth.

 

Thanks for the help everyone, it's really appreciated and it's certainly given me some more avenues to explore.

I think I know which option i'd prefer I've looked at far too many images of a 354 Chrono vs a non Chrono over the last day or two, but other than the markings on the Rotor is there a way to tell the difference? I've found references to 500k of the 354's being used as Chrono's in Constellations and Seamasters but have hit a wall trying to work out what I have, were C's generally not used in C2577's?

Hmmm, I'm intrigued now, would Chrono's always be marked on the dial?

Haha absolutely! Everyone loves a good Ghost Story.

Righty ho, I'm off to wrestle the Kong off the Dachshund, I probably could do with a few more photo's with more of the movement visible.

 

There's no other physical difference than the rotor, as far as I know. Same goes for the later cal. 501, by the way, which also exists in chronometer and non-chronometer spec and can also only be distinguished by the rotor (or by having Omega check the serial in their records). There are also chronometer certified 2577s, but they would indeed have been marked as such on the dial. I know @iamvr owns a stunning example, care to post a picture?

 

Always happy to share this one