My first Constellation .... and she´s from 1962 ... but not the dial ?

Wuza72 · Oct 9, 2019

Hi all,
yesterday i received my first Omega Constellation.

The OF was, as always, the most useful source for my research so i wanted to share my little story with you.

After some vintage Seamasters, i finaly decieded to buy this one from a private seller. I realy wanted to close my collection for this year but the first buyer did not show up and i was asked if i am still interested.

Last weekend i made all my "hunted" watches ready to be sold over the bay and someone inside my head said to me that i could spend the "maybe" earned money for that and that made it easy for me to say YES .... 😉

It is a "Hidden Crown" Constellation with the serail number 196xxxxx.

So the watch should be from 1962.

It has the beloved Caliber 561 and of course the caseback shows the reference number 168.004.

The "hidden" Crown is also the original one, btw it´s a little bit tricky to pull it out.

Here is a Picture of the still unpolished watch with the BOR bracelet.

The bracelet is a 1068/29 with 70 end links.

Sorry for the blurry picture of the movement

And finaly a picture from the case back.

Maybe it is helpful for our archive and the next researches 😀

Best

Wuza72

TexOmega · Oct 9, 2019

And they made a Pie Pan version with cal 564.

Noddyman · Oct 9, 2019

Wuza72
Maybe it is helpful for our archive and the next researches 😀

I don’t wish to pour cold water but there are some issues with your dial.
The hands have black infill and the indices look inlaid with onyx yet on the bottom we have T SWISS MADE T which indicates a lumed dial. I am not sure how this came about, possibly a later dual reference service dial or a very good redial. Other more knowledgeable may know the reason.

Edit:- Or a third possibility the guy/girl who put the original dial together picked out of the wrong box.

Caliber561 · Oct 9, 2019

Noddyman
I don’t wish to pour cold water but there are some issues with your dial.
The hands have black infill and the indices look inlaid with onyx yet on the bottom we have T SWISS MADE T which indicates a lumed dial. I am not sure how this came about, possibly a later dual reference service dial or a very good redial. Other more knowledgeable may know the reason.

Edit:- Or a third possibility the guy/girl who put the original dial together picked out of the wrong box.

It's possible that the dial was changed by a watchmaker and the original indices were swapped to the replacement in order to match the hands.
Anyways, if it is a redial, it's scarily good.

Wuza72 · Oct 10, 2019

Hey guys,
thanks a lot for your comments.

It was a gamble and thats another part of the story.

The seller (young daughter and her mother) could not open the watch, i did it later at home and saw the old serial number.

The selling price was in a verry good range, so nothing could nor went wrong 😉

Wuza72 · Oct 10, 2019

…. and unusual dials are the theme of this week for me 😁

https://omegaforums.net/threads/omega-constellation-168-004-with-unusual-dial.100953/#post-1345380

Wuza72 · Oct 10, 2019

To the comparison and to the theory of the changed indices, which in my opinion is the only logical explanation, the following picture.

The watch on top has the same Serial number 19......

The black dot, as part of the original line from the original dial, is still visible.

ConElPueblo · Oct 11, 2019

TexOmega
And they made a Pie Pan version with cal 564.

That one is a 168.010 though, right? The pie-pan .004s have a less prononounced edge on the dial.

Wuza72
To the comparison and to the theory of the changed indices, which in my opinion is the only logical explanation, the following picture.

The watch on top has the same Serial number 19......

The black dot, as part of the original line from the original dial, is still visible.

I really, really, REALLY don't think that swapping all the indices on the dial is a particularly logical explanation. The "T's" are a bit odd, though... Perhaps @Peemacgee can help out?

Peemacgee · Oct 11, 2019

There is precedent for .010s to have both onyx inserts and lume and a T SWISS T dial.
However, there’s no lume on the OPs (.004) dial.

The pics aren’t great but I’m not convinced the indices are onyx.
My vote would be for a later replacement dial and it was supplied/fitted without lume but with Ts.

michael22 · Oct 11, 2019

Perhaps somebody cleaned out crappy old lume & replaced it with black paint instead of new lume. If so, it seems to look better than many relumes, & I can sympathise.

Peemacgee · Oct 11, 2019

michael22
Perhaps somebody cleaned out crappy old lume & replaced it with black paint instead of new lume. If so, it seems to look better than many relumes, & I can sympathise.

Nice thought but I’m not sure that’s the answer.
The ‘fully-lumed’ indices on these references were a different shape (wedged at the ends)

Tempus · Oct 11, 2019

One I owned some years ago for comparison.

Wuza72 · Oct 11, 2019

Hello everyone,
first of all thank you so much for taking the time to help me.

I have now made a close-up of the dial. Maybe this will help with the evaluation.

What would you do, change the dial in case i could find an old one, or leave it as it is ?

Thank you very much

X350 XJR · Oct 11, 2019

Wuza72
Hello everyone,
first of all thank you so much for taking the time to help me.

I have now made a close-up of the dial. Maybe this will help with the evaluation.

What would you do, change the dial in case i could find an old one, or leave it as it is ?

Thank you very much

Those are painted markers, not onyx.

Perhaps there were lume pips at the ends of the markers which were cleaned off during a service.

Sometimes there are things about Omega that can't be explained.

TexOmega · Oct 11, 2019

ConElPueblo
That one is a 168.010 though, right? The pie-pan .004s have a less prononounced edge on the dial.

No

and my 168.010

Omega cal 564 ref 168.010 19mm BOR bracelet very uncommon in 19mm.JPG

ConElPueblo · Oct 11, 2019

TexOmega
No

Ah, very cool - those are pretty uncommon 👍

How close in serial number to @Peemacgee's are yours?

Peemacgee · Oct 11, 2019

ConElPueblo
Ah, very cool - those are pretty uncommon 👍

How close in serial number to @Peemacgee's are yours?

I’d put them in the properly ‘rare’ category because they shouldn’t exist but they do 😀
My .004 564 with serial number

Peemacgee · Oct 11, 2019

Wuza72
Hello everyone,
first of all thank you so much for taking the time to help me.

I have now made a close-up of the dial. Maybe this will help with the evaluation.

What would you do, change the dial in case i could find an old one, or leave it as it is ?

Thank you very much

Well, it was a good guess about the painted indices.

I’m going to stick with my premise of a replacement dial since it was produced about 5 years after the watch was made.

Any dial with Ts should have lume but As @X350 XJR says, sometimes Omega did peculiar things, and it may have been supplied without lume or it was removed later.

If the watch was sold as ‘all original’ (and priced accordingly) I would return it.
If not, I would leave well alone and enjoy your watch as it is.

michael22 · Oct 11, 2019

I'd happily wear its is, & not waste my time stuffing around. It looks good.

Wuza72 · Oct 11, 2019

Thank you very much for your helpful hints and the exchange we had, it brings me forward as always.

Peemacgee
Well, it was a good guess about the painted indices.

I’m going to stick with my premise of a replacement dial since it was produced about 5 years after the watch was made.

Any dial with Ts should have lume but As @X350 XJR says, sometimes Omega did peculiar things, and it may have been supplied without lume or it was removed later.

If the watch was sold as ‘all original’ (and priced accordingly) I would return it.
If not, I would leave well alone and enjoy your watch as it is.

I paid a pretty cheap price, the seller was a private person without any background knowledge about Omega watches.

michael22
I'd happily wear its is, & not waste my time stuffing around. It looks good.

I think i will keep the watch and with time there might be the possibility to find an original dial from the time.

Many greetings

Wuza

My first Constellation .... and she´s from 1962 ... but not the dial ?

Wuza72

TexOmega

Noddyman

Caliber561

Wuza72

Wuza72

Wuza72

ConElPueblo

Peemacgee

michael22

Peemacgee

Tempus

Wuza72

X350 XJR

TexOmega

ConElPueblo

Peemacgee

Peemacgee

michael22

Wuza72

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