Community Stories

My Eleanor (finally thought I got it, and it's gone)

EuroDriver
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I've had my eye on the SMP non-ac for quite a few years and even though I felt I had rounded out my collection, I ran into one at a very reasonable price. I guess it wasn't meant to be.

I vetted the seller who has a long, solid history, agreed to terms and paid for it. Seller promptly shipped and when I received the package over the weekend, I rushed to the post office to pick it up. When I opened the package, this is what I found:

20250203_150325.webp


A box full of staples. I'll say this: I did not buy through OF. I started a thread about my experience in that forum and it quickly spiraled out of control and got locked. I'm not posting it here to start an investigation, look for a culprit, etc. It's merely a cautionary tale and for members to learn from my mistakes.

For reasons that I'm too lazy to type right now and are rather irrelevant, I paid via bank wire, provided the USPS Priority label and failed to add insurance. The watch was mailed last Friday and arrived Monday, hold for pickup. Many have opined that the seller scammed me but I have no evidence that is the case. The paper tape was clearly cut on one end of the box and re-taped with cellophane packing tape. Also, the seller has stayed in constant contact with me over the situation.

So far, everything points to an inside job by postal workers while in transit. I have opened an investigation but don't have high hopes.

Online shopping is risky, but measures can be taken to mitigate it. Heed the lesson from my experience.

That said, if you can offer sound pointers on what I can do (without getting into speculations, drawing conclusions, asking for seller info, etc). It would be appreciated.
 
PatinaPete
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Postal inspectors are ruthless. I knew one. We went to school together for a number of years, ran into each other a few times during life. He doesn't tell a lot of stories, I don't pry. We both have professional boundaries. I gather these folks are not in camaraderie with any of the postal team. His offices were in a completely separate facility.

With that said, this has likely happened before, and there is a possibility this is the one that puts someone under the right microscope, to your benefit.

My only other thought is always require the insurance because I assume the postal folks can look into the system and see which packages are insured and which are not.
 
bsowers34
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I have absolutely no doubt that this happens all the time, with things like checks also. Because there is NO accountability within the postal service. None.
 
EuroDriver
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I had added the insurance but the new Click-N-Ship system is so screwed up, I had to re-do it several times and at the end, I forgot to confirm everything
 
Archer
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EuroDriver EuroDriver
I had added the insurance but the new Click-N-Ship system is so screwed up, I had to re-do it several times and at the end, I forgot to confirm everything
Hopefully this thread goes better than the insanity on WUS, and that dipshit ex-cop who somehow thinks you are the scammer...::facepalm1::

Sorry this happened.
 
E
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OOOf, the WUS thread is an absolute train-wreck already and I only just finished page 2 😁

As far as WHY they replace it with something of similar weight (I learned this with a... hilarious theft about 10 years ago... [0]): Every sorting machine everywhere along the path weighs packages. They aren't gram-accurate like the ones at the sales counter, but the sorting machine weighs them. When they do an internal-theft investigation, they first look to see where the weight changed/images of the package changed (the machines ALSO take pictures of at least the label side), etc.

They can very quickly get down to a list of a handful of employees at that point. SO any employee who knows what they're doing is going to do their best to make it 'look' like it wasn't modified to make it unclear which sorting center had the theft.

I am AMAZED at how many people there are upset that you wired money. Basically every deal I've done on WUS/here for more than ~$1000 was a bank wire. THAT is just how most sales happen, right? The shipping label being paid for by you instead of vice versa is a silly complaint too... I don't get what additional risk you're taking on (AND, in the case where it is insured properly, YOU get to deal with USPS instead of the seller).

The ONLY criticism I have for this whole thing is the underinsuring, but that is defensible given how awful the label websites are these days. AND you acknowledge that anyway.

[0] In MY Case, they stole about $10 of lead. It had been brass plated to look like 'fake' gold bars for a movie a friend of mine was making, and it had been overnighted due to time constraints. It was obviously HEAVY, and anyone who saw the xray would have been fooled. Despite the shipping being ~10x the cost of the materials, our postmaster did a pretty thorough investigation. Apparently by the time we caught him, the employee was already in jail for pawning a cell phone that had been reported stolen, presumably ALSO stolen from a package.
 
Dan S
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I have a feeling that you can mitigate this type of thing by using registered mail because individual carriers need to sign off on each transfer. But it's so friggin' slow (and no tracking), I rarely have the patience to use it except for really high value items.
 
EuroDriver
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I didn't know how registered mail works. I always thought priority was best thinking speed mitigated the risk.
 
lindo
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What a nightmare. I have been toying with selling most of my good vintage watches for a while, but have been concerned about reports here and elsewhere on scammers and mail theft. Your story just adds to my concerns. Maybe I will just have to sell them within Australia, where I can trust the Auspost mail system and research prospective buyers.
 
Dan S
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Registered mail is extremely secure. Logged and tracked and handed off with signature at every step. Stored in special locked containers. True chain of custody. Also, the tracking is part of a separate tracking system, only available to management, supposedly mitigating internal theft. Because it's so secure, you can get a very high level of insured value for very low cost. You can send a $25k package for something like $50. But it's so slow, it can be frustrating and nerve-wracking.
 
EuroDriver
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PatinaPete PatinaPete
Postal inspectors are ruthless. I knew one. We went to school together for a number of years, ran into each other a few times during life. He doesn't tell a lot of stories, I don't pry. We both have professional boundaries. I gather these folks are not in camaraderie with any of the postal team. His offices were in a completely separate facility.

With that said, this has likely happened before, and there is a possibility this is the one that puts someone under the right microscope, to your benefit.

My only other thought is always require the insurance because I assume the postal folks can look into the system and see which packages are insured and which are not.
This is encouraging. The consensus I've received so far is that most likely, the investigation will go nowhere, if it's conducted at all.

The question that's been lingering in my mind though: assuming it can be proved that a USPS employee stole the watch - what is my recourse? I'm thinking that USPS should compensate me for the loss, regardless of insurance. I figure insurance covers loss or theft by third parties, not by USPS itself. Anyone have any insight on this?
 
hen
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I was looking forward to see the SMP non-AC ,maybe not as much as you , beautiful watch and this shit happens. Thieving SOB may he be caught and punished and you get your non-AC.
 
mjb
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EuroDriver EuroDriver
This is encouraging. The consensus I've received so far is that most likely, the investigation will go nowhere, if it's conducted at all.

The question that's been lingering in my mind though: assuming it can be proved that a USPS employee stole the watch - what is my recourse? I'm thinking that USPS should compensate me for the loss, regardless of insurance. I figure insurance covers loss or theft by third parties, not by USPS itself. Anyone have any insight on this?

I would like to agree with you, but I cannot. You had the opportunity to purchase insurance, you did not, and so they have no liability, even if one of their employees did the theft. Sad, but that's just the way it is these days.

And look at it from their point - you didn't insure it, so you also didn't (I'm assuming) declare a value either. How do they know that the watch (if in fact it was a watch as you claim, they may ask...) is worth what you now want.

I'm sorry for your loss, best of luck next time!
 
E
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mjb mjb
I would like to agree with you, but I cannot. You had the opportunity to purchase insurance, you did not, and so they have no liability, even if one of their employees did the theft. Sad, but that's just the way it is these days.

And look at it from their point - you didn't insure it, so you also didn't (I'm assuming) declare a value either. How do they know that the watch (if in fact it was a watch as you claim, they may ask...) is worth what you now want.

I'm sorry for your loss, best of luck next time!
Yeah, I don't think USPS has any responsibility here at all. The only way this ends up being a 'positive' outcome is if they catch the thief, and find the watch, then return it.
 
EuroDriver
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mjb mjb
I would like to agree with you, but I cannot. You had the opportunity to purchase insurance, you did not, and so they have no liability, even if one of their employees did the theft. Sad, but that's just the way it is these days.

And look at it from their point - you didn't insure it, so you also didn't (I'm assuming) declare a value either. How do they know that the watch (if in fact it was a watch as you claim, they may ask...) is worth what you now want.

I'm sorry for your loss, best of luck next time!

I get what you're saying but let's agree to disagree. Suppose I sell you a watch, and I offer to insure it will get to you, at an additional cost. If you don't want to pay the extra amount, I'm not responsible if it doesn't arrive. You refuse to pay extra, so I put the watch in the box, take it back out and mail you an empty box, or something worthless instead of the watch. You call me out and I say "sorry, you could have paid me extra to make sure I didn't take the watch out of the box, so your loss." Seem legal to you?

This is a similar situation: I didn't pay extra and USPS steals the contents of my package. (The fact that an employee did it is no different than if USPS did it - they are responsible for the actions of their employees). Suppose I prove USPS did it and they can just say "sorry, you didn't pay me extra, so I am entitled to steal it, keep it, and give you an empty box without compensating you."

That's simply my point of view. Regardless, it's meaningless - an exercise in futility. I was doing some research this morning and it seems that USPS is immune from suits - criminal and civil. My only hope now is that the Inspector General's office investigates, finds the culprit, recovers my watch and delivers it to me. I'm not going to hold my breath, but will maintain a glimmer of hope.
 
josiahg52
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It happens. It's why I insist on shipping my watches in the US via Registered Mail. I find the odds are improved. One went on a walkabout for a bit, but I was provided phone numbers and could actually speak to a person along the way. Eventually, it was looked for at one of the locations and found and delivered normally. They really took the time to help me.

I've shipped a couple internationally, we agreed on a shipping means, cost sharing, insurance, etc. and I make it very clear that I will help in the event of loss or damage, but it's much harder to do internationally and I don't guarantee success. One provided a FedEx label to me, the last one was shipped Priority International with no added insurance. It's what the buyer wanted. Watch/jewelry insurance is spotty, anyway with the contractors.

I purchased many more watches and have provided a shipping label a few times. I don't see it abnormal. It's a choice. Just like it's a choice some make to never use Zelle, Venmo, or wire transfer and only PayPal G&S.
 
Larry S
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I never ever use the postal service for sending or receiving for high value items. Insured, FED Ex or DHL. I have a parcel pro account. I don't trust UPS - too loosey goosey. Left a 3K camera on my stoop after I had specified hold for pickup. Their pickup service is just awful. I have used registered mail for parts. I had bracelet links vanish between Royal Mail and USPS for four months. You get what you pay for. Get it into the system and out as quickly as possible. I also never have anything valuable delivered to the house. Always hold for pickup. When shipping wrap the watch in such a cocoon of bubble wrap and tape that the casual thief will move on.
 
ErichPryde
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Eurodriver, terribly sorry to hear this happened. I've also had some difficulty with the USPS site as of late with features just literally not working. Insurance... is obviously to help mitigate the risk factors we are just not able to measure, and man their systems are just junk. Wishing you the best of luck in tracking down a new non AC.
 
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