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I got a Ranchero! Hold it or fold it?

gabethebabe
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Been dreaming about Rancheros for years. Most examples I find online are a bit outside my price range, so I regrettably pass on opportunities now and then.

Recently, however, I saw one on ebay, not perfect, but looking fairly honest. I decided to put in a bid, not really expecting to win... but I did. Comparing with the range of prices I have encountered for apparently authentic pieces from well-known dealers, I was initially pleased with the price of 2600. It is a double-signed (+ "Seamaster") variant. Here are some pics:

face.jpeg back.jpeg clasp.jpeg under-clasp.jpg


There are two obvious issues about the condition, the missing lume in the hands, and the damage to the luminous paint on the hour indices (9 through 12). I think the previous owner had a start at trying to remove it, and then thought better of it. The hands bother me less since they could be visually fixed and I don't mind having less radium, to be honest. I would prefer the hour indices to be undamaged, but I got a good deal, no? I also think the bracelet is fake, but the listing didn't exactly lie about that:

A ... Beads of Rice ... bracelet with Omega folding clasp is mounted

The plot thickens. A little research revealed that a private seller had sold this exact watch on ebay one month prior for ~1600. I guess congratulations should go to the dealer for turning it around so quickly for a nice profit. However, a quick inspection of the watch revealed a poor mechanical state: very stiff winding, bone-dry pivots, very low amplitude, somewhat erratic time keeping (plenty of positional error etc). These discoveries have left me feeling a bit sour, as the dealer just slapped a fake bracelet on it and sold it without even a minimal service (apparently), despite claiming to have had its mechanical condition certified by an expert watchmaker.

I am tempted to exercise my right to return it. Am I being foolish? Is this my best chance to own a Ranchero? Did I get a good deal? Did I overpay?
 
JwRosenthal
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I’m not a ranchero expert (paging @gbesq ) but considering the watch is 100% legit bracelet aside (the bracelet is a generic with an omega branded clasp- not saying the clasp it legit either, and the vague language may have been misleading but wasn’t a lie) you need to assess if it’s worth the price even with sunk costs.
You have the initial $2.6k purchase, plus the cost of having the hands relumed (a good relumer may be able to color match the damaged plots to match the rest without having to totally strip the dial) and the cost of service- this will probably add another $1k to the price, then the price of adding a correct factory BOR unless you just want to wear it on a strap. So, is it worth doubling down for a total investment of close $4k into this watch or would it serve you better to return this one and stay on the hunt for a better one at that price?
 
Sa Calobra
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Super interesting case. Does it happen to have an extract or movement shots? Apart from the state of the movement, what would worry me most is whether the movement is correct, and the serial number as well. That is what would define whether it's a fully original Ranchero that justifies a higher price range (typically 4500-7500).

If it does turn out to be correct, I think even the double signed Ranchero's are worth more and you'd be having a great deal.
 
Davidt
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I wouldn’t concern myself with what someone else did or didn’t pay for it. You’ll tie yourself in knots worrying about that.
All that matters is what you paid for it and whether you’re happy at that price. Who paid what before you is irrelevant.
 
gbesq
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I'd need to see the extract, close up photos of the dial font, and a photo of the movement with serial number to be sure, but if this is an authentic double signed Ranchero Seamaster with a caliber 267 movement that is original to the watch, then you've hit one out of the park even if the watch needs significant mechanical work. Double signed Rancheros are exceedingly rare. I can't think of one that I've seen in recent memory that sold for less than 12k USD. For example: Omega Ranchero Seamaster / Double Signed Dial ref.2990-1 – Bulang and Sons Obviously, the state of the dial and hands diminishes the value somewhat, but nonetheless this could be a spectacular find. I'd suggest that you order an extract asap. The dial and hands will need to be professionallly relumed and this is a job that should only go to someone like James Hyman. Home (alchemistrelumer.co.uk) Obviously, don't operate the watch until you get it properly serviced. If you're going to have James Hyman do the relume, then I'd probably send the watch to Simon Freese for the movement service. Rancheros didn't originally come on bracelets, but the Omega five row vintage BOR 1036 bracelet or the modern Omega 3010 equivalent with 12 or 512 end links will fit nicely. Feel free to PM me if I can be of further assistance. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you that this watch is all original. If so, it could be the OF buy of the year. Congrats!
Edited:
 
Sa Calobra
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to be frank, i'm actually surprised what kind of dealer would sell this for 2600 or put this at eBay without a reserve price
 
gbesq
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Sa Calobra Sa Calobra
to be frank, i'm actually surprised what kind of dealer would sell this for 2600 or put this at eBay without a reserve price
IF it's genuine and original, then a dealer who knows nothing about Rancheros.
 
gabethebabe
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JwRosenthal JwRosenthal
I’m not a ranchero expert (paging @gbesq ) but considering the watch is 100% legit bracelet aside (the bracelet is a generic with an omega branded clasp- not saying the clasp it legit either, and the vague language may have been misleading but wasn’t a lie) you need to assess if it’s worth the price even with sunk costs.
You have the initial $2.6k purchase, plus the cost of having the hands relumed (a good relumer may be able to color match the damaged plots to match the rest without having to totally strip the dial) and the cost of service- this will probably add another $1k to the price, then the price of adding a correct factory BOR unless you just want to wear it on a strap. So, is it worth doubling down for a total investment of close $4k into this watch or would it serve you better to return this one and stay on the hunt for a better one at that price?

Excellent points. I would add that, although I would never personally attempt any significant cosmetic work, I have had some success reluming hands myself, which I consider a low risk activity due to the fact that the paint can always be taken off. Also, the 267 moment is well within my ability to do a basic service. So I might get it in shape for less than the $1k.
 
gbesq
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gabethebabe gabethebabe
Excellent points. I would add that, although I would never personally attempt any significant cosmetic work, I have had some success reluming hands myself, which I consider a low risk activity due to the fact that the paint can always be taken off. Also, the 267 moment is well within my ability to do a basic service. So I might get it in shape for less than the $1k.
Just my two cents, but this is not a watch that I would want to self service.
 
gabethebabe
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Sa Calobra Sa Calobra
Super interesting case. Does it happen to have an extract or movement shots? Apart from the state of the movement, what would worry me most is whether the movement is correct, and the serial number as well. That is what would define whether it's a fully original Ranchero that justifies a higher price range (typically 4500-7500).

If it does turn out to be correct, I think even the double signed Ranchero's are worth more and you'd be having a great deal.
gbesq gbesq
I'd need to see the extract, close up photos of the dial font, and a photo of the movement with serial number to be sure, but if this is an authentic double signed Ranchero Seamaster with a caliber 267 movement that is original to the watch, then you've hit one out of the park even if the watch needs significant mechanical work. Double signed Rancheros are exceedingly rare. I can't think of one that I've seen in recent memory that sold for less than 12k USD. For example: Omega Ranchero Seamaster / Double Signed Dial ref.2990-1 – Bulang and Sons Obviously, the state of the dial and hands diminishes the value somewhat, but nonetheless this could be a spectacular find. I'd suggest that you order an extract asap. The dial and hands will need to be professionallly relumed and this is a job that should only go to someone like James Hyman. Home (alchemistrelumer.co.uk) Obviously, don't operate the watch until you get it properly serviced. If you're going to have James Hyman do the relume, then I'd probably send the watch to Simon Freese for the movement service. Rancheros didn't originally come on bracelets, but the Omega five row vintage BOR 1036 bracelet or the modern Omega 3010 equivalent with 12 or 512 end links will fit nicely. Feel free to PM me if I can be of further assistance. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you that this watch is all original. If so, it could be the OF buy of the year. Congrats!

It is indeed a caliber 267, and seems in good condition from the looks, aside from desperately needing a service.

I will work on getting some more pictures as you described. Unfortunately, it seems that the "extract of the archives" service is temporarily unavailable form Omega (https://www.omegawatches.com/customer-service/certificates-and-extracts).

Thanks for your encouraging words, which also make me worry it may be "too good to be true." I'll get to work on the photos...
 
gabethebabe
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gbesq gbesq
Just my two cents, but this is not a watch that I would want to self service.

Thanks for the warning, which I certainly take to heart. It just occurred to me that the 267 is a simple movement, and not unique to the Ranchero, so perhaps I can grab parts easily, etc. Perhaps you would be worried about anything that would compromise its originality?
 
gbesq
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gabethebabe gabethebabe
Thanks for the warning, which I certainly take to heart. It just occurred to me that the 267 is a simple movement, and not unique to the Ranchero, so perhaps I can grab parts easily, etc. Perhaps you would be worried about anything that would compromise its originality?
Correct. Again, if this is an original double signed Ranchero, it's quite valuable and really should be serviced by the pros.
 
gabethebabe
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gbesq gbesq
Correct. Again, if this is an original double signed Ranchero, it's quite valuable and really should be serviced by the pros.

Makes sense to me, but is it possible to confirm that the double signature itself is correct? I assume this would not be indicated in an extract because I have read the "Seamaster" was signed only after the factory sent the watches to retailers....
 
Larry S
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gbesq gbesq
IF it's genuine and original, then a dealer who knows nothing about Rancheros.
Hard to imagine since Ranchero blew up as a category, and mine field long ago.
 
gbesq
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gabethebabe gabethebabe
Makes sense to me, but is it possible to confirm that the double signature itself is correct? I assume this would not be indicated in an extract because I have read the "Seamaster" was signed only after the factory sent the watches to retailers....
It appears correct to me from other examples that I have studied, but you are probably correct that the extract isn't going to confirm that. What's important is that the extract specifically state that the watch is a Ranchero (NOT a Seamaster) and that the serial number on the extract matches the serial number on the movement.
 
gbesq
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Larry S Larry S
Hard to imagine since Ranchero blew up as a category, and mine field long ago.
Certainly a concern, but this wouldn't be the first time that we've seen a rare example of a vintage piece on OF that was picked up at a barn find price.
 
gabethebabe
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P.S. I tried to get in contact with Omegra about getting an extract, but they replied that the service is unavailable and they don't know when it will become available again.
 
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