Learn about watchmaking - for non-watchmakers

kaplan · May 30, 2022

The sizing isn't optimised for Omega's, but still extremely useful - the 500 series hour hand is 1.5mm on the inside, the closest lifter is 1.45mm - I started extending one of the spares with sandpaper, however ended up using a bigger size

No damage to the naturally damaged dial, even without using the internal clasping mechanisms, it's pretty useful just as a lift - I only ended up using the grasp system for the seconds hand, the minutes hand was easy too, the hour hand which is the critical one wasn't as breazy as I imagined, but this watch/dial particularly cuts it close too

Archer · May 30, 2022

kaplan
The sizing isn't optimised for Omega's, but still extremely useful - the 500 series hour hand is 1.5mm on the inside, the closest lifter is 1.45mm - I started extending one of the spares with sandpaper, however ended up using a bigger size

No damage to the naturally damaged dial, even without using the internal clasping mechanisms, it's pretty useful just as a lift - I only ended up using the grasp system for the seconds hand, the minutes hand was easy too, the hour hand which is the critical one wasn't as breazy as I imagined, but this watch/dial particularly cuts it close too

This tool is really only intended for "delicate" dials. Not really meaning your average vintage dial, because regular levers can be used on those, and if you use proper protection, the dial will be fine.

These are more intended for dials that cannot withstand any pressure on them. A good example would be the Speedy Tuesday 1, which has lumed concentric circles around the sub-dials, so you cannot have anything touch the dial or the lume will be damaged. Another is Buzz's butt on the anniversary model, the hidden Ultraman logo on the ST2, dials made of aventurine, or MOP, etc.

For the money you spent you did fine - the Omega version is approx. $4,800 US...

Olhenry56 · May 30, 2022

Speaking of tools, does anyone know of an alternative to a Seitz jeweling tool? I found a cracked jewel and ended up buying a replacement bridge, but I would eventually like to repair it and sell the old bridge or have it as a spare. I'm not sure if it's worth the investment of another few hundred $ for a tool I hopefully wouldn't use too often. But maybe I'm naive and broken jewels are more common than I realize?

Archer · May 30, 2022

Horia tool is what I use most often for jewelling like you describe:

Horia SA : Jewelling tool "pas fin", spindle hole 4.00 mm

Olhenry56 · May 30, 2022

Archer
Horia tool

I found some cheap knockoffs on eBay that seem okay (as long as the micrometer is reliable) except they don't come with reamers. If money were no object I'd bid to win this supposedly complete k&d staking set (which I'm sure I'll require before too long) with jeweling attachment.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/3344586295...CsRVpgvTba&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY
But I'd bet that's going up to the neighborhood of $1000.

Archer · May 30, 2022

Olhenry56
I found some cheap knockoffs on eBay that seem okay (as long as the micrometer is reliable) except they don't come with reamers. If money were no object I'd bid to win this supposedly complete k&d staking set (which I'm sure I'll require before too long) with jeweling attachment.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/3344586295...CsRVpgvTba&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY
But I'd bet that's going up to the neighborhood of $1000.

Same set I have, but I wouldn’t use it for jewelling personally. It will work in a pinch but there are better dedicated tools.

Olhenry56 · May 30, 2022

Archer
Same set I have, but I wouldn’t use it for jewelling personally. It will work in a pinch but there are better dedicated tools.

That's good to know. Thanks as always for sharing your wisdom with us.

noless · May 31, 2022

I am also thinking about one of those chinese horia clones.
however past experience shows i always seem to replace precision tools a bit after...

perhaps this is a buy nice or buy twice situation?

noless · Jun 2, 2022

I remembered that @Olhenry56 mentioned identifying screws when I was sorting the screws post cleaning of this cal. 752

This is what I meant when I mentioned checking the bottom of the screws, the balance cock and train wheel bridge screws look a lot like the screws for the lower automatic device bridge (short) but you can tell them apart by the polish on the bottom!

JimInOz · Jun 2, 2022

kaplan
The sizing isn't optimised for Omega's, but still extremely useful - the 500 series hour hand is 1.5mm on the inside, the closest lifter is 1.45mm - I started extending one of the spares with sandpaper, however ended up using a bigger size

No damage to the naturally damaged dial, even without using the internal clasping mechanisms, it's pretty useful just as a lift - I only ended up using the grasp system for the seconds hand, the minutes hand was easy too, the hour hand which is the critical one wasn't as breazy as I imagined, but this watch/dial particularly cuts it close too

An interesting tool. I mostly use levers or Prestos, but this would be useful for delicate dials as noted by Al.

How do the jaws operate? Do they open/close, or do you have to slide the hand into the gap and lift?

kaplan · Jun 2, 2022

JimInOz
An interesting tool. I mostly use levers or Prestos, but this would be useful for delicate dials as noted by Al.

How do the jaws operate? Do they open/close, or do you have to slide the hand into the gap and lift?

Slide into a good position, optionally screw the top to get a grip and lift

Only for 550 series seconds hand lifting, I found the screw gripping useful, one of the pushers have a hole for the pinion needle

But for the hour and minutes hand I have no idea what they would achieve

Obviously I might not be using them as intended, but even so it makes life much easier for me

Edit: Basically the stand is static, you can tighten the lifter to a set position, and the lifters themselves only have one action, when you screw them, they can push one of the pushers you choose onto the hand you gripped

I didn’t use the stand tighteners and instead pulled directly with lifters

Olhenry56 · Jun 11, 2022

Setting a cal 471 I have causes the hands to rock (side shake, I suppose). I took a look inside and the best I can figure is that the cannon pinion is worn. In the photo, the cogs seem to be twisted slightly. Does this commonly cause this kind of problem? Or maybe the interior diameter is too worn? Or probably both?
Thank you!

Archer · Jun 11, 2022

Is this what you are seeing?

If so, the cause is most likely the hole in the main plate where the center wheel passes through being worn oval. Repair would be to bore the hole out (while maintaining the original center) and then install a bushing.

Olhenry56 · Jun 11, 2022

Archer
Is this what you are seeing?

Yes. I tried moving the center wheel when the cannon pinion was removed, and it would not shake, but I suppose the cannon pinion puts much more torque on it than I did.
Do you think the cannon pinion is flawed and caused the hole to wear oval, or is that just something that happens over time regardless?

Archer
Repair would be to bore the hole out (while maintaining the original center) and then install a bushing.

Looks like I get to buy some new tools. Thanks for the guidance.

Archer · Jun 11, 2022

Olhenry56
Yes. I tried moving the center wheel when the cannon pinion was removed, and it would not shake, but I suppose the cannon pinion puts much more torque on it than I did.
Do you think the cannon pinion is flawed and caused the hole to wear oval, or is that just something that happens over time regardless?

Looks like I get to buy some new tools. Thanks for the guidance.

If the cannon pion has damaged or worn teeth is a different issue entirely. The hole in the main plate wears from lack of servicing over the years.

Cdnwatchmaker · Jun 17, 2022

At the moment I am waiting to attend the AWCI cw21 certification. The American Watch and Clock Institute website has a list books for recommended reading before entering the certification exam, like the Theory of Horology which I suggest anyone interested in watchmaking read. That list should keep you busy reading for a while. The most important thing I have learnt over the years, for example, lets take screws drivers or tweezers. Using these tools is one thing, learning how to dress them, sharpen them and use them properly is the most important thing to remember. Anytime a watchmaker enters a watch, no sign of them ever being in the watch should be present. So no scratches on plates,
no marring of screws etc. I always recommend someone learn standards first, and get off on the right start.

Cdnwatchmaker · Jun 17, 2022

Oh sorry, Archer’s write up are excellent also. I read them in the past before joining here, and they are a great reference to have. I would also love to see a watchmaking forum here, depending in my time available I would love to contribute.

Rjay8 · Jul 2, 2022

So I purchased this tool recently for about 50USD shipped: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/225...st.0.0.21ef1802rJOh0z&gatewayAdapt=4itemAdapt

It finally came in yesterday. No issues and does its job well so far! I bought it since the last person who opened/closed the caseback on a watch i purchased replaced the caseback with the notch between the 12oclock and 1oclock index (angled between the lugs). This made getting a blade properly into the area a nightmare. The watch is gold which didn't make it any easier, but im counting my lucky stars that they didn't replace the back with the notch positioned at a lug.
With the tool, i was able to brace the watch against one of the two nylon adapters, set a height, and used one of the blade adapters to press into the opening and start a gap. I then popped the back off from the side with a regular caseknife. No scratches to the finish!
It also has adapters for bracelet links and i believe i might be able to use it for pressing crown tubes (havent come across this situation yet).

Overall solid construction and I think well worth the money for the stress relief from snap on casebacks.

Olhenry56 · Jul 3, 2022

Where do you all typically buy mainsprings? I tried buying on the cheap from eBay, but the dimensions and quality are inconsistent.

I'm troubleshooting a very low amplitude (~45 deg) on a cal. 342 I've rebuilt. With the palette fork removed, the escape wheel spins very freely when I just nudge the crown, so I don't think there is a problem with the train of wheels. And I can get the amplitude up to about 180 by firmly and gently applying torque to the center wheel with wooden tweezers (with palette fork in place of course, ratchet wheel and barrel removed). So long story short, I suspect that the new mainspring just doesn't have enough power. I've already purchased mainsprings for this watch twice from eBay (I failed to get the first one in because it was almost too large for the barrel, and it was my first attempt ever. It was definitely longer than the second one I purchased). I've learned my lesson that I'm probably just going to have to pay twice as much for reliable quality. I'd greatly appreciate any suggestions you all have.

Oh, full embarrassing disclosure, as this is my first time working on an automatic movement, I made an extreme bonehead mistake that could also be the culprit here. When I put the current mainspring in, I stupidly used the wrong grease on the walls of the barrel instead of braking grease. I could only wind it about 7 times before I could feel the spring suddenly slip and unwind. So I had to take it out, clean off the barrel and spring, apply braking grease, and wind the mainspring (using cheap mainspring winders and my gloved thumb to turn the barrel arbor in the spring instead of using the crank arbor that NEVER catches) back into the barrel. It could be that I didn't clean the barrel or mainspring enough and it is still slipping. I don't think that's the case because I don't feel it slipping like before, but maybe it's slipping very slowly. I will have to put it through the barrel and spring through some cleaning solution to see if that helps. But even if this is the cause of my low amplitude, I'd still like to know where you source mainsprings.

kaplan · Jul 4, 2022

For me it's donor movements, but the best source is mass parts auctions on eBay

For example I have a NOS 330 spring, If it fits I can trade it with something, or if it's very important to you, I could gift it to you as well

Just checked eBay, it's available here too: https://www.ebay.com/itm/265728418257?hash=item3ddea5e1d1:g:h9AAAOSwXCNioP~z

So maybe it's a good idea to check whether other calibres from the family have the mainspring, and check for NOS parts on eBay for all of them: http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi?10&ranfft&170&2uswk&Omega_330

Learn about watchmaking - for non-watchmakers

kaplan

Archer

Olhenry56

Archer

Olhenry56

Archer

Olhenry56

noless

noless

JimInOz

kaplan

Olhenry56

Archer

Olhenry56

Archer

Cdnwatchmaker

Cdnwatchmaker

Rjay8

Olhenry56

kaplan

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