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Is this really a chronometer?

  1. Moahunter

    Moahunter Dec 18, 2019

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  2. CafeRacer

    CafeRacer Dec 18, 2019

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    The movement is also numbered if you look carefully.
    Unfortunately its inside an H20217-3 case, and should not have lume on the dial or hands, so something is amiss.
     
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  3. Moahunter

    Moahunter Dec 18, 2019

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    I don't know enough about Polerouters to think whether a numbered movement is of any significance.
     
  4. Mazoue

    Mazoue Dec 18, 2019

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    It is also missing the 'unadjusted' text, as expected for a chronometre.

    So to be fair, the answer to the OP's question is yes - the dial matches the serialised chronometre movement.
     
  5. Mazoue

    Mazoue Dec 18, 2019

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    Not just a Polerouter thing of course. Any UG chronometre would have had a serialised movement because it is that particular movement number that was tested and certified as being of sufficient accuracy.

    Interesting to think about quite how rare a Polerouter chronometre is. If I had to guess, I would certainly say that fewer than 1% of Polerouters are chronometres.
     
  6. X350 XJR

    X350 XJR Vintage Omega Aficionado Dec 18, 2019

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    That being said, is it worth anywhere near the asking price?
     
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  7. Moahunter

    Moahunter Dec 18, 2019

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    Surely a chronometre movement would have "adjusted 5 positions" text although I have read on this forum that this was omitted for the US market to avoid extra customs charges.
    Are you saying that no Polerouters have serialized movements unless they are also have "Chronometre" on the dial?
     
  8. Mazoue

    Mazoue Dec 18, 2019

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    The text on the chronometre movements for the Cal 138ss bumper and the microtors is different.

    For the bumpers, such as the one we are discussing here, the 'unadjusted' text is missing and a 4 digit serial number is present.

    On the microtors, you will see either 'adjusted two positions' or 'adjusted five positions' along with a 4 digit serial number.

    This was discussed in this thread https://omegaforums.net/threads/universal-geneve-chronometre-how-to-verify.81943/

    There are examples on the site run by @CafeRacer https://universalgenevepolerouter.com/movements/

    I do not believe a Polerouter should have a serialised movement unless it has 'chronometre' on the dial.
     
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  9. LoMat

    LoMat Jan 12, 2020 10:46am

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    This is something I’d really like to have proof on with other H20217-3 pictures for example. Also why would H Case follow S Case « rules »? On a side note I haven’t been able to see any other H case so far... so seeing is believing!
    Btw I am the one selling the Chronomètre on EBay.
     
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  10. CafeRacer

    CafeRacer Jan 13, 2020 3:01am

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    H cases seem to use a different plexi mounting (with wire/tension ring) than S cases, from what i can tell.
    I have a stack of H 20217-3 saved in my archive folders.
    They are all non-lume on both hands and dial.

    E.g. H20217-3 serial 1806842 (close to your 1806892):

    H20217-3 1806842 front.png
     
  11. LoMat

    LoMat Jan 13, 2020 3:55am

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    Yes I can confirm 100% that mounting is different between S and H case but not only for plexi but also case size and case inner shape is different. You can not switch a S case mouvement 138 ss and its mouvement holder in a H case and vice versa.
    Thanks for your example which leans towards your assumption but does not 100% confirm it. Now next question : have you seen any 138ss Chronomètre with steel H case? With steel S case?
    given the scarcity of H case vs S case (which percentage btw?) and the extreme scarcity of 138ss chronomètre (1 out of 1000 ?) if we follow your theory that this watch being a franken, someone went into a lot of complexity and hassle to produce a watch that is at the end not much worth more than a regular 138ss... UGs are not in the same price gap as Zenith or Omega when you switch from a regular one to a Chronomètre one.
    At least not yet ;-)
     
  12. CafeRacer

    CafeRacer Jan 13, 2020 4:13am

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    The movement, dial and hands swap over directly as one piece between both case types. Quite simple.
    Taking into account the characteristic patterns for all other S and H case 20217, it seems very unlikely to me that this example is as it left the factory.

    Regardless, it is super cool to have a chronometre-dial polerouter, with a numbered movement. :)

    However, my opinion is that the focus should be on finding some evidence that it is correct in this configuration, rather than relying on not finding evidence that it is not correct. More of a "guilty until proven innocent" instead of the other way around. Until then...
     
    Edited Jan 13, 2020 3:15pm
  13. LoMat

    LoMat Jan 13, 2020 4:40am

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    That s where I am not sure.
    Unfortunately I don’t have my 20217-8 to compare but I recall dial sizes were a bit different.
    plexiglass is 100% sure different size, H case being larger by at least 2 tenth of mm. So I don’t think you can swap them so easily. To be verified though
     
  14. LoMat

    LoMat Jan 13, 2020 10:28am

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    And I would be interested to see other 138ss Chronomètre if you have any in your collection or database. The only one I can recall of is the GP one from Bill Sohne that he shared on this forum a while ago.
     
  15. CafeRacer

    CafeRacer Jan 14, 2020 2:26am

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  16. LoMat

    LoMat Jan 14, 2020 3:20am

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    Great thanks.
    2 interesting things in this thread.
    1. the S20217-3 showed by OP is with lumed dial and hands ::confused2::
    2. The 2 Chronometre samples owned by Bill are also lumed. That would be great to know which ref they are bearing.

    Is he still active on the forum?
     
  17. CafeRacer

    CafeRacer Jan 14, 2020 4:10am

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    Bills are both 20217-5.