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I think I was duped - Seamaster

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I just won an auction on eBay and completely overlooked something that should have been painfully obvious. The word “Seamaster” is below “DE VILLE”. I’ve never seen that orientation and some intense googling confirms my fears. Am I correct in assuming this is a fake?

I purchased “Authentication Guarantee”, so hopefully I can sort things out that way. Thanks for any help you can provide. I’m feeling pretty foolish right now and this definitely confirms my fears that I’m in over my head in this market.

Lastly - my apologies if this post doesn’t follow proper forum etiquette. Happy to repost somewhere else if needed. I can reply with more photos if it helps.

thanks!!
 
IMG_1538.jpeg
gbesq
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Without commenting on the watch, here’s some OF advice that is often repeated to new members:

First, read this:
https://omegaforums.net/threads/learn-how-to-fish.52603/

Second, shop here:
https://omegaforums.net/threads/rec...-watches-only-on-ebay-not-for-inquiries.1790/

Third, ask other members for input on prospective purchases BEFORE you buy.

Last, slow down. It takes time to learn how to properly evaluate a vintage watch and to identify the good buys from the junk.
 
wagudc
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A avischio
I just won an auction on eBay and completely overlooked something that should have been painfully obvious. The word “Seamaster” is below “DE VILLE”. I’ve never seen that orientation and some intense googling confirms my fears. Am I correct in assuming this is a fake?

I purchased “Authentication Guarantee”, so hopefully I can sort things out that way. Thanks for any help you can provide. I’m feeling pretty foolish right now and this definitely confirms my fears that I’m in over my head in this market.

Lastly - my apologies if this post doesn’t follow proper forum etiquette. Happy to repost somewhere else if needed. I can reply with more photos if it helps.

thanks!!

It's not fake, but the dial has been repainted which drastically effects the value. I'm not sure what Ebay authenticators do with redials. Was it disclosed in the ad. Usually they will say the dial has been "professionally refinished." If not, you should be able to return it.
 
NotJackson
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A avischio
I purchased “Authentication Guarantee”, so hopefully I can sort things out that way.

eBay’s authentication is done by Stoll & Co, a trade focused outfit that bills themselves as “America’s Watchmaker” (I am not making this up):

https://www.americaswatchmaker.com/

You may want to Google them and take a look at Yelp reviews posted by eBay sellers. It’s not pretty.

In my occasional eBay watch purchases I’ve seen little evidence that Stoll would be able to detect (or care about) some of the things that a collector would note, e.g. a refinished dial or an incorrect handset. They should be able to spot gross fakery such as a non-Omega movement, although there are Yelp reviews that suggest otherwise.
 
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Thanks everyone for the help and input. I learned a valuable lesson today. Sigh. I’ll keep my fingers crossed the authentication process works in my favor.
 
wagudc
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YYTIN YYTIN
Hi

Edit : @wagudc post arrived at the same time I sent mine and I could not find any other example either. So looks like your fear is justified…

You don't need to go look for other examples. The script is too wonky and uneven to be original Omega, plus notice the minute ticks are not all the same length and don't appear to lie on a perfect circle.
 
wagudc
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A avischio
Thanks everyone for the help and input. I learned a valuable lesson today. Sigh. I’ll keep my fingers crossed the authentication process works in my favor.

I would try to return it regardless of the out if the authentication lets it through. Give the reason that it was not as described. The second thread posted by @gbesq is a great resource. Ash (@dsio) must spend hours each week combing through ebay for descent vintage Omegas at auction. You are getting pre-vetted watches by a true expert for free. I spend a fair bit of time on ebay, and I don't think I have ever come across a good entry level Omega that Ash has missed.
 
Dan S
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The authenticator will not concern themselves with a repainted dial as long as the watch is authentic. You can read the details about the authentication process on the eBay site.

wagudc wagudc
I would try to return it regardless of the out if the authentication lets it through. Give the reason that it was not as described.
Have you read the listing? Let's hold our judgement. Many (most) old watches have repainted dials and there is no rule against selling them on eBay.
Edited:
 
wagudc
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Dan S Dan S
Have you read the listing? Let's hold our judgement. Many (most) old watches have repainted dials and there is no rule against selling them on eBay.

No mention of the dial being refinished, but there is no claim that it has the original finish. I understand why some would feel it is unethical to push for a return under such conditions, but based on the sellers other listings I suspect he knows the dial was refinished and chose not to explicitly disclose that.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2965152100...V35xhFw/B/GsxgQOxT13G0Xw==|tkp:Bk9SR57kltqJZA
 
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Pastorbottle
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Is Stoll & Co's premises a booth at the mall where they also cut keys mend shoes and sell ciggies?
 
gbesq
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The last watch that I purchased on eBay was delivered to me from the authenticators with the screw in case back so loose that it was about to fall off. Fortunately, the movement was undamaged. Needless to say, I was less than impressed.
 
Dan S
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wagudc wagudc
No mention of the dial being refinished, but there is no claim that it has the original finish. I understand why some would feel it is unethical to push for a return under such conditions, but based on the sellers other listings I suspect he knows the dial was refinished and chose not to explicitly disclose that.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/296515210067?itmmeta=01J16T5P873S3XNW1MKDYNGZY9&hash=item4509af0b53:g:TG8AAOSwq39mZ5Yw&itmprp=enc:AQAJAAAA8ECJ23Nn9stAi+bDHzVlD73TVEWjRyhk5gRuQwRqywGreaArmOxxj3H4tApTePOJS6udMkfstz7a6xXY02gy9YGmGFjFe1o6FJ1LeF5DIEwmgF0BGmK/25+tnYq8LmP+g1O4WfFDDRVFOfV69YsXVO12bJcn3xVfuGuPwcve0+59cwXmgohtM9BzPxtPHI4JowYbxsti/dAbipHa4nQQ8oOjpd+SY0lk+bs5YBew4qfSX+lpthFHnDIKJeusUYSOuLPrQgb2bRCqzwTfB7gr/L9RDUM2A4oid16gTs4IUiV35xhFw/B/GsxgQOxT13G0Xw==|tkp:Bk9SR57kltqJZA
I don't care one way or the other if the OP tries to return the watch, but it doesn't sound like the item was described incorrectly. Many vintage watch dials were repainted in the past, and the seller may or may not know. I would say that the buyer has some responsibility here, and it's hard to say that he was "duped." It's eBay, some due diligence is required ... noob tax.

Incidentally, even if the dial had been original, that was a strong price for a mediocre gold-filled Seamaster, IMO, with a lot of bidding. Adding taxes and the authentication fee, the OP could have bought something nice on the forum.
Edited:
 
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Annapolis
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You have paid the newbie tax. Every single one of us has paid it in some form at some point. You might be able to get a refund for yours. But if not, don’t feel too badly. Just follow the advice others have given and it won’t happen again.
 
Evitzee
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Pastorbottle Pastorbottle
Is Stoll & Co's premises a booth at the mall where they also cut keys mend shoes and sell ciggies?
I've had a couple of watches repaired at Stoll & Co, they are a very professionally run outfit and do good work. Why they got involved in this authentication business is odd, but maybe the fees were just too good to pass up.
 
NotJackson
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Evitzee Evitzee
maybe the fees were just too good to pass up

That would be my guess. Within the confines of how eBay defines “authentication,” it’s probably easy money. I’d be interested to know how the authentication fee is split between eBay and Stoll, but it seems like there’s plenty to go around.
 
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