How to tell if a WatchCo is a 'genuine' WatchCo i.e. built by them, or if it's WatchCo 'like'?

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I'm considering a WatchCo Seaaster 300 165.024 as an everyday watch, as I love the vintage look but really want the practicality of easily replacing something if and when it gets damaged; but how can you tell if a WatchCo is a 'genuine' WatchCo i.e. built by them, or if it's WatchCo 'like' built by any Tom Dick or Harry who could get the parts from Cousins, Otto Frei or the like?
 
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Would it only be a receipt as provenance, or is there something I'm missing?
 
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You can’t, unless you have a receipt or documentation on WatchCo headed paper that matches the serial.

But who cares? Plenty of watchmakers of equal or greater capably than those at WatchCo made these conversions. There’s multiple stories of WatchCo SM300’s running poorly off the bat and needing a service so a ‘genuine WatchCo’ is no guarantee of anything imo
 
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Would it only be a receipt as provenance, or is there something I'm missing?
Only a receipt with a serial number would be absolute proof.

Unfortunately, Watchco (FRESCO AUSTRALIA PTY. LIMITED) simply issued a basic receipt with no watch details.

I have one or two somewhere.
 
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I'm considering a WatchCo Seaaster 300 165.024 as an everyday watch, as I love the vintage look but really want the practicality of easily replacing something if and when it gets damaged; but how can you tell if a WatchCo is a 'genuine' WatchCo i.e. built by them, or if it's WatchCo 'like' built by any Tom Dick or Harry who could get the parts from Cousins, Otto Frei or the like?
There is no such thing as a genuine Watchco. They are all assemblages made hopefully (but not always) with original Omega replacement parts. The parts Cousins and Frei used to sell were identical to those Watchco used. By the way, it wont be a 165.024, it will be a 166.0324. Only original 60s SM300s use the former case number, the replacement case has a longer number (whether you fit a date or no date movement). It is no longer easy or cheap to replace parts like those used on re-boot SM300s, this is why you don't see these being made any more. Here is an earlier thread about sourcing a Watchco:

https://omegaforums.net/threads/omega-1660324-vs-watch-co-builds-how-to-tell-them-apart.149955/

And another:

https://omegaforums.net/threads/best-place-to-get-watchco-seamaster-300-165-0324.147812/
Edited:
 
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There is no such thing as a genuine Watchco. ......................

I beg to differ.

"Genuine" Watchcos were indeed a thing.
A product of a company that had a "Watchco" website which has now long gone.
The person behind Watchco 300 (and other Omega models) was Marcus Alexander.
Marcus had an incredible network of Omega parts suppliers in Switzerland and he would regularly travel there to source NOS Omega parts, as well as Omega Service parts (the basis for "Watchcos").

I often went into the city to collect genuine Omega parts ordered by people from around the planet (members here) and onforward them after a suitable period had elapsed.
It was during one of these visits I was talking to Marcus about the Watchco Seamasters and he was quite open about what they were, and what they weren't.

I still remember the day that I got an email from Rob to say that Marcus had bought back a few genuine service movements and would I like to go ahead with my Watchco 300 (I'd been holding out for that rather than a 552 from a donor watch).

The answer wasn't hard 😁.

 
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You take a good picture.

I do see your point, but I would question whether a Watchco assembled SM300 is in any way shape or form different from one assembled anywhere else in the world with service parts, and as such why should it be considered differently? I suppose you could argue that a verified Watchco assembled watch is less likely to have fake or non standard parts than one of uncertain parentage, that I will accept but there is no Watchco pixie dust in use.

You mention NOS parts. How many are there on your watch do you think? It looks awfully like the same Superluminova dial and hands all the others use. Is it a 165.024 case, or a 166.0324 like all the others. I too would prefer a service movement to a salvaged one, that is a nice touch but the number built that way is vanishingly small. I remember those movements being sold on ebay now you mention it. If Watchco had in some way marked the watch as theirs, or used actual 1960s parts I would have a different opinion, but there it is.
Edited:
 
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FWIW when I bought one of the last 552's direct from Watchco in 2014, Marcus was kind / enterprising enough to also sell me a movement-correct (service replacement) 165.0024 caseback, fitted. So I had a spare 166.0324. If someone's selling that combo you might have a 'real' Watchco 😀

A fond farewell to mine from 3 years ago https://omegaforums.net/threads/sold-omega-seamaster-300-552-cal-165-0024-watchco.107957/

Additional 166.0324 caseback, unused, unfitted. Watchco used to buy complete case sets from Omega parts supply - those sets were fitted with the 166.0324. At my request at purchase, Watchco were able to fit a service replacement (not NOS) 165.0024 to my case and supplied this now spare 166.0324 alongside (value $300)
Edited:
 
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You take a good picture.

I do see your point, but I would question whether a Watch assembled SM300 is in any way shape or form different from one assembled anywhere else in the world with service parts, and as such why should it be considered differently? I suppose you could argue that a verified Watchco assembled watch is less likely to have fake or non standard parts than one of uncertain parentage, that I will accept but there is no Watchco pixie dust in use.

You mention NOS parts. How many are there on your watch do you think? It looks awfully like the same Superluminova dial and hands all the others use. Is it a 165.024 case, or a 166.0324 like all the others. I too would prefer a service movement to a salvaged one, that is a nice touch but the number built that way is vanishingly small. I remember those movements being sold on ebay now you mention it. If Watchco had in some way marked the watch as theirs, or used actual 1960s parts I would have a different opinion, but there it is.

The only "NOS" part is the movement. All of the others are service replacement parts and this was disclosed to me by Rob during discussions about my 300.

I agree with your points though, but I was only responding to the original question:

"but how can you tell if a WatchCo is a 'genuine' WatchCo"

In a nutshell, you can't.
 
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Fair point about service replacement vs NOS. I misused the term there! (and tbh misused it frequently when discussing that watch ha)
 
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My watchco 552 SM300 came from Watchco back in 2012 and also had a new replacement 165.0024 case back. This is the watch I'm giving to my son as part of his wedding this month, I will be sad to see it go but hopefully he will enjoy it 👍
 
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As long as the parts are authentic, why would you care who assembled it?
 
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Fair point about service replacement vs NOS. I misused the term there! (and tbh misused it frequently when discussing that watch ha)

That's largely because Watchco themselves misused the term regularly...so everyone else started saying they were made with "NOS" parts, when it was just modern service parts.
 
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I beg to differ.

"Genuine" Watchcos were indeed a thing.
A product of a company that had a "Watchco" website which has now long gone.
The person behind Watchco 300 (and other Omega models) was Marcus Alexander.
Marcus had an incredible network of Omega parts suppliers in Switzerland and he would regularly travel there to source NOS Omega parts, as well as Omega Service parts (the basis for "Watchcos").

I often went into the city to collect genuine Omega parts ordered by people from around the planet (members here) and onforward them after a suitable period had elapsed.
It was during one of these visits I was talking to Marcus about the Watchco Seamasters and he was quite open about what they were, and what they weren't.

I still remember the day that I got an email from Rob to say that Marcus had bought back a few genuine service movements and would I like to go ahead with my Watchco 300 (I'd been holding out for that rather than a 552 from a donor watch).

The answer wasn't hard 😁.


Small addition : .... Marcus had an incredible network of ......= True.
..... Marcus HAS an incredible.... = True as well. Just in a different Country.
 
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I think of saying “watchco” to describe an assembled 300 from factory parts and vintage (either salvage or NOS) movements has become like saying Kleenex to describe any facial tissue. But the company and the 300’s they made have become part of Omega lore.
They are neither better, worse or different than any other 300 assembled the same way, and as said above- aside of a receipt from watchco, there is no provenance to be had as far as I have seen.
Mine was purchased towards end of the run by a member here directly from watchco. According to him, they didn’t provide any paperwork, box or bracelet (although I think they offered the current mesh as an option- don’t recall)- just the watch head and a receipt.
I personally don’t care either way, I love the watch and don’t have any fear wearing it daily. But is there such a thing as a watchco300?- yes, there is. Is it special- no, it isn’t.
 
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I put this one together from a complete but very tired 166.024 using a dial, bezel and hand-set I purchased from Watchco way back in the day.

 
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I think of saying “watchco” to describe an assembled 300 from factory parts and vintage (either salvage or NOS) movements has become like saying Kleenex to describe any facial tissue. But the company and the 300’s they made have become part of Omega lore.
They are neither better, worse or different than any other 300 assembled the same way, and as said above- aside of a receipt from watchco, there is no provenance to be had as far as I have seen.
Mine was purchased towards end of the run by a member here directly from watchco. According to him, they didn’t provide any paperwork, box or bracelet (although I think they offered the current mesh as an option- don’t recall)- just the watch head and a receipt.
I personally don’t care either way, I love the watch and don’t have any fear wearing it daily. But is there such a thing as a watchco300?- yes, there is. Is it special- no, it isn’t.

On a Holzer. Love it. I need to stop procrastinating and just buy one from Uncle Seiko.

Here's mine, assembled by @Archer many years ago, on a US 1035 bracelet. I bought most of the parts, he provided whatever I didn't have at the time I commissioned it.
 
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I hate this thread 👎

I really want one and you all are just waiving yours around 😬

😁
 
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On a Holzer. Love it. I need to stop procrastinating and just buy one from Uncle Seiko.

Here's mine, assembled by @Archer many years ago, on a US 1035 bracelet. I bought most of the parts, he provided whatever I didn't have at the time I commissioned it.
I bought both 19&20mm endlinks for both the Holzer and flatlink- amazing how many watches these bracelets work with.
 
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I'd trust an Archer or STS as much as I'd trust a Watchco but that is just me.