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rhr321
·Very surprised they told you 321 Canopus is readily available. It feels like a unicorn to me, I think it’s ultra ultra low production.
How long have you been on the cal. 321 waiting list?
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Evitzee
·Zero time on a waitlist where my privilege is rated by how much stuff I previously bought from an OB, I just won't play that game. Went grey in March 2022 and with the latest price increases I paid 12.5% premium over current MSRP. A bargain in my book and I've had it on my wrist for 17 months. Grey, FTW.
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Arunski
·😀
well, I would definitely recommend the opposite!
Having a good relationship with your local OB manager is worth a lot of waiting 😀😀
As going Grey means you’re supporting flippers and their immoral gains! Hence waiting for a Retail
Price is the way to go IMHO! extremely short waiting time for Ed White, Snoopy 3rd, or now waiting for UltraDeep if your registered as living in Switzerland Just pay retail and good things will come to you, patience being a virtue & all ;-)
Zero time on a waitlist where my privilege is rated by how much stuff I previously bought from an OB, I just won't play that game. Went grey in March 2022 and with the latest price increases I paid 12.5% premium over current MSRP. A bargain in my book and I've had it on my wrist for 17 months. Grey, FTW.
well, I would definitely recommend the opposite!
Having a good relationship with your local OB manager is worth a lot of waiting 😀😀
As going Grey means you’re supporting flippers and their immoral gains! Hence waiting for a Retail
Price is the way to go IMHO! extremely short waiting time for Ed White, Snoopy 3rd, or now waiting for UltraDeep if your registered as living in Switzerland Just pay retail and good things will come to you, patience being a virtue & all ;-)
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Evitzee
·😀
well, I would definitely recommend the opposite!
Having a good relationship with your local OB manager is worth a lot of waiting 😀😀
As going Grey means you’re supporting flippers and their immoral gains! Hence waiting for a Retail
Price is the way to go IMHO! extremely short waiting time for Ed White, Snoopy 3rd, or now waiting for UltraDeep if your registered as living in ! Just pay retail and good things will come to you, patience being a virtue & all ;-)
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Arunski
·
Your choice, not mine. I challenge your statement that wait times are extremely short for Ed White or Snoopy now. Your wait time may have been short but that is not what most waiters are finding. I don't have a hangup on flippers, they exist for a reason. Everybody's approach to financial dealings are different, no right, no wrong.
Not that I would as it’s anything but exclusive with 85 sale locations! The first was rare and limited …….
an additional point! If I am not mistaken you are one of thousands complaining about production numbers made & waiting times caused (have you seen the new 321 atelier?) and coughing up premium u could have saved and reduced demand by waiting patiently and building a relationship with your local OB manager. Mine in item me in the last 30 years to go on watch making courses & given jackets & factory visits etc worth a million more than getting your wanted watch instantly to satisfy your insta postings?
(Apologies if that’ sounds like an old fart whining…no offence meant! But remeber I waited over 30 years for a new 321! Good things comes to those people who can wait my Nan used to say and she was one sharp cookie
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Evitzee
·an additional point! If I am not mistaken you are one of thousands complaining about production numbers made & waiting times caused (have you seen the new 321 atelier?) and coughing up premium u could have saved and reduced demand by waiting patiently and building a relationship with your local OB manager. Mine allowed to go on watch making courses & given jackets etc worth a million more than getting your wanted watch instantly to satisfy your insta postings?
(Apologies if that’ sounds like an old fart whining…no offence meant! But remeber I waited over 30 years for a new 321
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Arunski
·I've not complained about 321 production numbers other than they are artificially limited by Omega, that's just their marketing strategy. Their choice, so I worked around it. My OB is 50 miles away and I've only bought one watch from an OB (Apollo 11), and it wasn't even from that boutique location. I didn't get my 1957 Trilogy, ST1 and 2, and two Tokyo's from an OB because the OB retail systems didn't support those models. Most had to go grey, or preowned, to get those pieces in the US. I don't need to go on watchmaking courses or get free jackets, hats and swag from an OB, I've done that over the years. Nice, but I'm past that. It's great if it all works for you, but at my collecting stage I go for grey availability at the best market price, that's usually at a lower price, but not always. I drop into my OB two or three times a year, and I've bought straps and buckles from them, they are very accommodating, but I'm not going to play the Rolex-lite Omega strategy they are now using.
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pdxleaf
··"I cut it TWICE and it's still short!"My OB is 50 miles away and I've only bought one watch from an OB (Apollo 11), and it wasn't even from that boutique location.
Similar here. Only OB is about 200 miles away. I've purchased 4 new Omega's, 3 from AD's, one from an OB 1500 miles away. Like most, i have several vintage and a few modern second hand Omegas. But nothing from my closest OB.
It certainly seems like it's a company strategy to squeeze out ADs and the second hand market.
Being Omega brand loyal is not built into the process. Being one boutique loyal seems to be the requirement, which is annoying. Kindof a turnoff, really. Omega boutique buyers starting to flex like Rolex fanboys.
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Sauzo
·Waited about 6-7 months for my 321 and still waiting for my Snoopy call at about 7 months so far.
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ErichPryde
··Seamasters Forever@Arunski the problem with the OB route is that it is not really any different than a flipper when it comes to some of these pieces. If you have to buy five or six watches you don't want to buy one watch that you do, that's a lot of markup, more so even, then simply going gray in the first place.
It just feels different because you're buying from them source perhaps, but the OB/AD is marking you up. Just... in a different way and for more $$$ potentially.
Also... good things come to those who create their own luck. Good things come to those who take initiative.... not just those who wait.
It just feels different because you're buying from them source perhaps, but the OB/AD is marking you up. Just... in a different way and for more $$$ potentially.
Also... good things come to those who create their own luck. Good things come to those who take initiative.... not just those who wait.
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msum
·First post! Figured it was time to join the forum…
A relative has been waiting for a 321 since March 2022.
A relative has been waiting for a 321 since March 2022.
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scapa
·Too long. I think I must be pushing 3 years or more now but I refuse to check the original invoice for fear of being annoyed. My AD says he's received 3 so far, with dozens of orders. I'll be pleased if it ever shows up, but honestly I may no longer have the faculties to even recognize it by then.
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Sauzo
·Too long. I think I must be pushing 3 years or more now but I refuse to check the original invoice for fear of being annoyed. My AD says he's received 3 so far, with dozens of orders. I'll be pleased if it ever shows up, but honestly I may no longer have the faculties to even recognize it by then.
I hear you. I pretty much figured I'd never see one. Then I got floored. My OB said they saw 2 last year and this year so far, only the one I got. Yours will eventually come. Probably just as you have given up.
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Arunski
·@Arunski the problem with the OB route is that it is not really any different than a flipper when it comes to some of these pieces. If you have to buy five or six watches you don't want to buy one watch that you do, that's a lot of markup, more so even, then simply going gray in the first place.
It just feels different because you're buying from them source perhaps, but the OB/AD is marking you up. Just... in a different way and for more $$$ potentially.
Also... good things come to those who create their own luck. Good things come to those who take initiative.... not just those who wait.
yeah but 12.5%! Premium (Grey mkt prices) isn’t MSRP. I have only ever bought at OB at MSRP (discounts in OBs don’t exit). But I was never asked to buy any watch I didn’t want to get my Ed White and my Snoopy 50th. The waiting times were minimal (months not years) in Swiss OBs.
My local Ob manager told me that basically anybody registered in CH could without too much difficult and no previous purchase history to get one of the above or both of the OB staff “feel” the customer is a serious collector and will not just flip it on Chrono24
IMHO too many people trying flip watches for profit and not interested in the watches themselves apart from price increases (see Rolex & AD games). I wonder if it’s different in other Countries as he also said OB don’t request you buying watches you don’t want to get. Ed White or Snoopy. That basically the volumes are just very low due to production method). Hence I am surprised that seems to occur a lot in US or UK OBs?
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Raskolnikov
·Yes it differs a lot from country to country. Not every country has an Omega Boutique. Not every city has an Omega Boutique. Easy to say you were never asked to buy watches, when you already bought a few watches at your boutique and already are a returning customer.
When you are a vivid collector but were always able to find watches below retail on the secondary or grey market, or were able to get great discounts at local ADs (20 - 30%) it made sense to go that route instead of paying full list price at the OB. Everybody knew until fairly recently you would be stealing from yourself paying full retail for an Omega. You could get them cheaper abroad, find them tax-free at the airport, or negotiate a good discount in your local town. It also depends on the model that you're after. Some are hard to get by, and some models that you fancy are odd ones out, and the AD is happy to finally sell. This has always been the case .... until.... Omega started to imitate the rolex AD model with the 321, and shortly thereafter the Snoopy3.
If you've been following the 321 and the Snoopy story throughout 2020 and 2021, with so to say production problems due to factory closings during lockdowns, ADs and OBs closed for whole seasons during lockdowns and a massive hype market around Rolex and these two Omega models, it makes total sense to go grey.
Yes we all hate availability problems, yes we all hate paying over retail, just because the AD is not willing to sell to you, although the safe is full of watches. And yes we all know it's one big inflated scam orchestrated by all the parties involved. So you have your principles: Never pay over retail for a current catalog --mass produced-- piece that's still in production. Agree. Paying 30k for a steel GMT as an investment piece? Not me. 20 in todays market? Pass. So how about a discontinued limited edition? That sure has collectors value. And there is no other way to get it.
I missed out on the Speedy Tuesday Ultraman at retail for 6k on the day of introduction. It was sold out in 2,5 hours and still, when applying for it the website was unavailable and timed-out. I couldn't get through. I bought the watch a year later new in box for 7k. 1k over retail, I didn't mind.
To me it makes total sense to pay 2k over retail for the 321, even though it's still in, albeit limited production. I have played the waiting game and I waited for about a year and got the watch at the end of 2022, at retail yes. Bought a seamaster, went in the store every month and eventually it came up for me. When I read the stories at this forum I consider myself lucky, because people are waiting endlessly, and also are treated like they are asking for a steel daytona. If you are too old to play the game and have too much self-respect and dignity not to jump through hoops to get your "reward watch" for good behavior at the store, it's a no brainer: find a good seller with the 321 in good condition, make the transaction and DONE. Few days later you got the watch. Ok so you paid a little extra to bypass the headaches, the 321 watch is totally worth it. Because if you take a closer look; the new 321 is the best steel manual wound Speedmaster that Omega released in the last 50 years. Remember people; this is not a mass produced watch.
As for the Snoopy; I have no ambition for it. To me it's a hype watch, like the green submariner or the batman or the likes. It's overhyped, a trophy watch, and a bit gimmicky. Artificially scarce with the excuse that the animation at the back is hard to produce; yeah right, takes three years. One of the reasons it got a huge markup on the grey market, is Snoopy2. That one still goes over 40k, but then again there are only 1970 pieces in total. Snoopy3 went to the moon at 30k / 31k, but it has come down a lot lately. I saw one at chrono24 the other day for 15k. That's only a small markup from the 11,5 list price. It's not going back up to 30k and my guess is there are probably around 10k pieces sold already.
Now the 321 on the other hand..... that's the one to go for!
When you are a vivid collector but were always able to find watches below retail on the secondary or grey market, or were able to get great discounts at local ADs (20 - 30%) it made sense to go that route instead of paying full list price at the OB. Everybody knew until fairly recently you would be stealing from yourself paying full retail for an Omega. You could get them cheaper abroad, find them tax-free at the airport, or negotiate a good discount in your local town. It also depends on the model that you're after. Some are hard to get by, and some models that you fancy are odd ones out, and the AD is happy to finally sell. This has always been the case .... until.... Omega started to imitate the rolex AD model with the 321, and shortly thereafter the Snoopy3.
If you've been following the 321 and the Snoopy story throughout 2020 and 2021, with so to say production problems due to factory closings during lockdowns, ADs and OBs closed for whole seasons during lockdowns and a massive hype market around Rolex and these two Omega models, it makes total sense to go grey.
Yes we all hate availability problems, yes we all hate paying over retail, just because the AD is not willing to sell to you, although the safe is full of watches. And yes we all know it's one big inflated scam orchestrated by all the parties involved. So you have your principles: Never pay over retail for a current catalog --mass produced-- piece that's still in production. Agree. Paying 30k for a steel GMT as an investment piece? Not me. 20 in todays market? Pass. So how about a discontinued limited edition? That sure has collectors value. And there is no other way to get it.
I missed out on the Speedy Tuesday Ultraman at retail for 6k on the day of introduction. It was sold out in 2,5 hours and still, when applying for it the website was unavailable and timed-out. I couldn't get through. I bought the watch a year later new in box for 7k. 1k over retail, I didn't mind.
To me it makes total sense to pay 2k over retail for the 321, even though it's still in, albeit limited production. I have played the waiting game and I waited for about a year and got the watch at the end of 2022, at retail yes. Bought a seamaster, went in the store every month and eventually it came up for me. When I read the stories at this forum I consider myself lucky, because people are waiting endlessly, and also are treated like they are asking for a steel daytona. If you are too old to play the game and have too much self-respect and dignity not to jump through hoops to get your "reward watch" for good behavior at the store, it's a no brainer: find a good seller with the 321 in good condition, make the transaction and DONE. Few days later you got the watch. Ok so you paid a little extra to bypass the headaches, the 321 watch is totally worth it. Because if you take a closer look; the new 321 is the best steel manual wound Speedmaster that Omega released in the last 50 years. Remember people; this is not a mass produced watch.
As for the Snoopy; I have no ambition for it. To me it's a hype watch, like the green submariner or the batman or the likes. It's overhyped, a trophy watch, and a bit gimmicky. Artificially scarce with the excuse that the animation at the back is hard to produce; yeah right, takes three years. One of the reasons it got a huge markup on the grey market, is Snoopy2. That one still goes over 40k, but then again there are only 1970 pieces in total. Snoopy3 went to the moon at 30k / 31k, but it has come down a lot lately. I saw one at chrono24 the other day for 15k. That's only a small markup from the 11,5 list price. It's not going back up to 30k and my guess is there are probably around 10k pieces sold already.
Now the 321 on the other hand..... that's the one to go for!
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Arunski
·Yes it differs a lot from country to country. Not every country has an Omega Boutique. Not every city has an Omega Boutique. Easy to say you were never asked to buy watches, when you already bought a few watches at your boutique and already are a returning customer.
When you are a vivid collector but were always able to find watches below retail on the secondary or grey market, or were able to get great discounts at local ADs (20 - 30%) it made sense to go that route instead of paying full list price at the OB. Everybody knew until fairly recently you would be stealing from yourself paying full retail for an Omega. You could get them cheaper abroad, find them tax-free at the airport, or negotiate a good discount in your local town. It also depends on the model that you're after. Some are hard to get by, and some models that you fancy are odd ones out, and the AD is happy to finally sell. This has always been the case .... until.... Omega started to imitate the rolex AD model with the 321, and shortly thereafter the Snoopy3.
If you've been following the 321 and the Snoopy story throughout 2020 and 2021, with so to say production problems due to factory closings during lockdowns, ADs and OBs closed for whole seasons during lockdowns and a massive hype market around Rolex and these two Omega models, it makes total sense to go grey.
Yes we all hate availability problems, yes we all hate paying over retail, just because the AD is not willing to sell to you, although the safe is full of watches. And yes we all know it's one big inflated scam orchestrated by all the parties involved. So you have your principles: Never pay over retail for a current catalog --mass produced-- piece that's still in production. Agree. Paying 30k for a steel GMT as an investment piece? Not me. 20 in todays market? Pass. So how about a discontinued limited edition? That sure has collectors value. And there is no other way to get it.
I missed out on the Speedy Tuesday Ultraman at retail for 6k on the day of introduction. It was sold out in 2,5 hours and still, when applying for it the website was unavailable and timed-out. I couldn't get through. I bought the watch a year later new in box for 7k. 1k over retail, I didn't mind.
To me it makes total sense to pay 2k over retail for the 321, even though it's still in, albeit limited production. I have played the waiting game and I waited for about a year and got the watch at the end of 2022, at retail yes. Bought a seamaster, went in the store every month and eventually it came up for me. When I read the stories at this forum I consider myself lucky, because people are waiting endlessly, and also are treated like they are asking for a steel daytona. If you are too old to play the game and have too much self-respect and dignity not to jump through hoops to get your "reward watch" for good behavior at the store, it's a no brainer: find a good seller with the 321 in good condition, make the transaction and DONE. Few days later you got the watch. Ok so you paid a little extra to bypass the headaches, the 321 watch is totally worth it. Because if you take a closer look; the new 321 is the best steel manual wound Speedmaster that Omega released in the last 50 years. Remember people; this is not a mass produced watch.
As for the Snoopy; I have no ambition for it. To me it's a hype watch, like the green submariner or the batman or the likes. It's overhyped, a trophy watch, and a bit gimmicky. Artificially scarce with the excuse that the animation at the back is hard to produce; yeah right, takes three years. One of the reasons it got a huge markup on the grey market, is Snoopy2. That one still goes over 40k, but then again there are only 1970 pieces in total. Snoopy3 went to the moon at 30k / 31k, but it has come down a lot lately. I saw one at chrono24 the other day for 15k. That's only a small markup from the 11,5 list price. It's not going back up to 30k and my guess is there are probably around 10k pieces sold already.
Now the 321 on the other hand..... that's the one to go for!
Awesome to put on your own a watch apart & back together makes you appreciate people’s skills like @Archer
fingers crossed OB outside Switzerland stop playing games with true fans and help them obtain their dream watches without tricks! Glad my OB doesn’t act like that
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texasmade
·
It's not really playing games. My OB has a waitlist of over 20 ppl right now for the EW321 and they haven't received a single piece since last year.
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Arunski
·View attachment 1658097
Well only a max of 2000 321 calibers are made (shared between 3 watches) and my OB manager friend told me so far they haven’t reach 2k per annum. But seeing the atelier & watch makers putting the Ed white together makes one appreciate how low the production vol are.View attachment 1658097
I was more referring to those posters who mentioned they got asked to buy lots of other watches before getting chance to order Ed white.
It's not really playing games. My OB has a waitlist of over 20 ppl right now for the EW321 and they haven't received a single piece since last year.
I was more referring to those posters who mentioned they got asked to buy lots of other watches before getting chance to order Ed white.
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milkatar2120
·The 321 is produced in extremely small numbers and the demand for the watch exceeds the production quantity many times over. The production of the caliber is extremely time consuming and difficult! No comparison with the other Omega movements. It is not only the complexity that leads to the fact that only very small numbers of the watch are produced, but also the many manual labor with which the movement is made. This is not like Rolex where you have to wait years for every 0815 model that is pure mass production. The sellers have to decide which customers they want to sell the watch to because of the extremely high demand and the low quantities. It is absolutely fair that first the customers get the watch, who have already bought many Omega watches there and are therefore real fans / lovers / collectors of the brand. Anything else would not be fair to this group of buyers. If we were in the seller's place, we would surely also give our top customers of the Omega brand the chance to buy the watch first and not some customer who has never or only bought 1 watch in OB. Again, please don't compare this to Rolex, where pretty much no new customer has a chance to get any watch, as almost no Rolex steel model is sold to these persons.
It's ok that every watch brand has a few models that are reserved for the brand's top customers. At Omega, these are really only 3-4 models, everything else you can buy immediately without waiting. Even as a new customer.
It's ok that every watch brand has a few models that are reserved for the brand's top customers. At Omega, these are really only 3-4 models, everything else you can buy immediately without waiting. Even as a new customer.
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Arunski
·The 321 is produced in extremely small numbers and the demand for the watch exceeds the production quantity many times over. The production of the caliber is extremely time consuming and difficult! No comparison with the other Omega movements. It is not only the complexity that leads to the fact that only very small numbers of the watch are produced, but also the many manual labor with which the movement is made. This is not like Rolex where you have to wait years for every 0815 model that is pure mass production. The sellers have to decide which customers they want to sell the watch to because of the extremely high demand and the low quantities. It is absolutely fair that first the customers get the watch, who have already bought many Omega watches there and are therefore real fans / lovers / collectors of the brand. Anything else would not be fair to this group of buyers. If we were in the seller's place, we would surely also give our top customers of the Omega brand the chance to buy the watch first and not some customer who has never or only bought 1 watch in OB. Again, please don't compare this to Rolex, where pretty much no new customer has a chance to get any watch, as almost no Rolex steel model is sold to these persons.
It's ok that every watch brand has a few models that are reserved for the brand's top customers. At Omega, these are really only 3-4 models, everything else you can buy immediately without waiting. Even as a new customer.
