Help required please, vintage Constellation

[Steve Clarke]

Hi everyone,
Please could I ask for a bit of help on a constellation that belonged to my recently deceased dad, I've looked online and can't seem to see any that are exactly the same. This type usually seems to have a double bar at 12 o'clock. I've no idea if it's genuine and the other one he had is definitely fake, he bought it in Egypt on a family holiday.
Many thanks
Steve Clarke

 

[gatorcpa]

The dial looks like a correct variation for a Ref. 168.017 “C” case Constellation. Found another example here:


https://www.catawiki.com/en/l/71014...gold-capped-chronometer-168-017-men-1960-1969

However, I have some concerns about the watch case. It is not clear to me from the photos if this case is solid gold or gold capped. You will need to take the watch to a watchmaker and have it opened up to make that determination.
gatorcpa

 

[Peemacgee]

welcome @Steve Clarke, condolences on the loss of your father

as @gatorcpa says, the dial is a known variation with a straight N at the end of constellation and the upper text fails the MOY test.

The case may be gold capped / filled or it could very well be a locally produced gold case.

A gold c-case shouldn't have a brickwork observatory but the shape and layout of the observatory and size of stars aren't of Swiss design.
It may have poincon (circled below) so check them out.

However, as above the information is all on the inside - but be very careful trying to open it, gold is soft and you can easily damage the caseback (you can see someone already has)

 

[Peemacgee]

Interesting that both examples of this dial/font/hand combination have lume but no Ts - one for the knowledge bank @kaplan

 

[Aroxx]

Welcome to the forum Steve. Condolences on your dad. This watch is a great keepsake. I would get it serviced by a competent independent watchmaker and enjoy it!

 

[Aroxx]

Peemacgee

Interesting that both examples of this dial/font/hand combination have lume but no Ts - one for the knowledge bank @kaplan

Other than MOY this jumped out at me as well. I glanced over the caseback too quickly but those stars do indeed look strange.

 

[Steve Clarke]

gatorcpa

The dial looks like a correct variation for a Ref. 168.017 “C” case Constellation. Found another example here:


https://www.catawiki.com/en/l/71014...gold-capped-chronometer-168-017-men-1960-1969

However, I have some concerns about the watch case. It is not clear to me from the photos if this case is solid gold or gold capped. You will need to take the watch to a watchmaker and have it opened up to make that determination.
gatorcpa

Thanks @gatorcpa, the example you share has the steel showing through at the end of the lugs, mine doesn't so it may be solid, that would be my guess based on my dad! maybe the photo doesn't show it well but the face looks very pale gold also.

 

[Steve Clarke]

Peemacgee

welcome @Steve Clarke, condolences on the loss of your father

as @gatorcpa says, the dial is a known variation with a straight N at the end of constellation and the upper text fails the MOY test.

The case may be gold capped / filled or it could very well be a locally produced gold case.

A gold c-case shouldn't have a brickwork observatory but the shape and layout of the observatory and size of stars aren't of Swiss design.
It may have poincon (circled below) so check them out.

However, as above the information is all on the inside - but be very careful trying to open it, gold is soft and you can easily damage the caseback (you can see someone already has)

Thanks @Peemacgee, the circled dots were dirt apologies!

 

[Peemacgee]

Aroxx

Other than MOY this jumped out at me as well. I glanced over the caseback too quickly but those stars do indeed look strange.

The stars could be French or English but the observatory isn’t - look at the position of the ‘telescope aperture’ - way too near the top

 

[Steve Clarke]

Aroxx

Welcome to the forum Steve. Condolences on your dad. This watch is a great keepsake. I would get it serviced by a competent independent watchmaker and enjoy it!

Appreciated @Aroxx it's going nowhere, other than to be serviced as advised. Sorry what is a MOY failure?

 

[Peemacgee]

Steve Clarke

Thanks @Peemacgee, the circled dots were dirt apologies!

Not all countries mark their gold externally but most do.
Have you checked all round the case for any kind of ‘ding’ that might be a hallmark?


Either way - the inside is the key.

 

[Peemacgee]

Steve Clarke

Appreciated @Aroxx it's going nowhere, other than to be serviced as advised. Sorry what is a MOY failure?

The MOY test is the alignment of a nominal vertical line from the first peak of the M in AUTOMATIC, through the centre of the O in CHRONOMETER, and touching the tip of the right hand arm of the Y in OFFICIALLY.

The failure of this test is a potential sign of a redial for a constellation (of which there are many) - except when it isn't, as is the case in the dials of certain C cases.

 

[Peemacgee]

Steve Clarke

Thanks @gatorcpa, maybe the photo doesn't show it well but the face looks very pale gold also.

Omega did do 'deluxe' Constellations, which were solid gold cases with solid gold dials.
Your dial may be a 'champagne' dial but it isn't gold, this can be seen by the sunburst effect and the damage to the upper left.

for all things Constellation try Desmond's excellent blog
http://omega-constellation-collectors.blogspot.com/
and specifically this section for C cases
http://omega-constellation-collecto...12/constellation-c-shape-omegas-child-of.html

 

[Steve Clarke]

Thanks all, I'll update the discussion when it's back from the repairer

Peemacgee

Omega did do 'deluxe' Constellations, which were solid gold cases with solid gold dials.
Your dial may be a 'champagne' dial but it isn't gold, this can be seen by the sunburst effect and the damage to the upper left.

for all things Constellation try Desmond's excellent blog
http://omega-constellation-collectors.blogspot.com/
and specifically this section for C cases
http://omega-constellation-collecto...12/constellation-c-shape-omegas-child-of.html

Correct it's champagne

 

[Steve Clarke]

Here are the inside pictures, all help gratefully received guys!

 

[Peemacgee]

English 18k gold case
Being London made, likely by Shackman
Date letter for 1967
ref 168.5009 (the 5 being the English addition to the standard ref number.)

 

[Steve Clarke]

Thanks @Peemacgee 8m reply! 👍

 

[Steve Clarke]

Please have a look at the other watch that belonged to my dad, far more his style but I assumed it to be fake, as mentioned above we believe it was bought in Egypt, it has significant damage to the strap, thanks again , thanks again

 

[Peemacgee]

Steve Clarke

Please have a look at the other watch that belonged to my dad, far more his style but I assumed it to be fake, as mentioned above we believe it was bought in Egypt, it has significant damage to the strap, thanks again , thanks again

Well, that is certainly different !

This style of case etching was popular around the late 60s and early 70s.

Not an Omega case of course (it has a snap back instead of a screw back and no medallion) but it may be a locally produced case and bracelet - you would have to have it tested for gold content to see if it has any intrinsic value.

The movt is an Omega quickset date cal 564, dated to around 1968 - correct for a Constellation of this era.

I think the linen style dial has been repainted.

 

[Steve Clarke]

Peemacgee

Well, that is certainly different !

This style of case etching was popular around the late 60s and early 70s.

Not an Omega case of course (it has a snap back instead of a screw back and no medallion) but it may be a locally produced case and bracelet - you would have to have it tested for gold content to see if it has any intrinsic value.

The movt is an Omega quickset date cal 564, dated to around 1968 - correct for a Constellation of this era.

I think the linen style dial has been repainted.

Perfect thanks @Peemacgee, really appreciated.