Help me with my Frankenstein Pre-moon

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Krisgrum

·Jan 28, 2020

Dear experts.
I would really appreciate, if anyone of you guys can help me with my most recent addition to the family.

As a watchmakers apprentice, you sometime come across a deal you have to make. A golden chance like that, left me with a new watch in my collection. My current master, whom is leaving the business at age 80 this summer, allowed me to buy this old lady from him. I immediately agreed to his price, and I left work that day, with a new grail around my wrist.

Since then, I’ve had some troubles deciding which watch, exactly, I’ve bought. I’ve come to a point now, where my skills fail me, when it comes to a conclusion. Therefore, I ask for your help.
Here’s what I’ve got:

The facts:
Back-case, ref. 145.012-67 (SP) (HF)
The movement: cal. 861
Serialnr. (mov.): 27323403
Dating, by serialnr: 1969

My assumptions:
Dial: Original step dial
Hands: Original
Bezel: Decimal, service-edition.
Pushers: Original
Crown, original, big logo

My question is this: Have I bought a 145.012-67, with the wrong movement or a 145.022-69, with the wrong back case?

Thank you, for any help what so ever, in advance
Best regards

 

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efauser

·Jan 28, 2020

The plot thickens. I love my speedmaster predicts it as a 145.022-68 from March of 1969, based on the serial number.

 

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BlackTalon

·Jan 28, 2020·This Space for Rent

Can you post a better photo of the dial? It's hard to tell if the lume has been removed, or if it was mysteriously applied in a much more perfect manner than normal. I like the bezel, although it is a bit less valuable than the DON that would have been on a '67, and probably a little less valuable than the DNN that would have been on a '69. I wonder if this watch is actually a 'bitsa'.

 

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Pilot85

·Jan 28, 2020

If I would have to bet I would say a 69 on a 67 case back. 😗😗

 

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MikeMan2727

·Jan 28, 2020

My guess is that it would be a 145.022 transitional with wrong caseback. The long indices dial on a cal 861 and low 27 mil serial number would make sense for this.

Unless your watchmaker modified the dial feet from a cal 321 dial to fit this...

 

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WYO_Watch

·Jan 28, 2020

MikeMan2727

My guess is that it would be a 145.022 transitional with wrong caseback.

+1

It’s much easier to swap casebacks than dials. I’d further wager it’s a -68 transitional. That’s supported by I love my Speedmaster as posted above by @efauser.

You should be able to hunt down a correct caseback and have a correct watch again, or just wear it and enjoy it 👍

Edit to add some light @Spacefruit reading: http://speedmaster101.com/145-022-transitional/

 

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Tom Dick

·Jan 28, 2020

bezel is original, spacing between the 7 & 0 is too far apart to be a service replacement

 

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ndgal

·Jan 28, 2020

K Krisgrum

My question is this: Have I bought a 145.012-67, with the wrong movement or a 145.022-69, with the wrong back case?

This is a 145.022-68 "Transitional." with a wrong case back.

K Krisgrum

Crown, original, big logo

It's not. Count the teeth... 😉 (I haven't, I can just tell by looking).

 

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Krisgrum

·Jan 28, 2020

ndgal

This is a 145.022-68 "Transitional." with a wrong case back.


It's not. Count the teeth... 😉 (I haven't, I can just tell by looking).

Thanks a lot. Do you have a scheme or anything i can refer to, in order to find the correct crown?

 

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efauser

·Jan 28, 2020

K Krisgrum

Thanks a lot. Do you have a scheme or anything i can refer to, in order to find the correct crown?

I know it may not be likely, but maybe your master mixed up case backs during a service and there's another customer with your case back on his 145.012-67. Might be worth having a look at the records.

 

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Patrik83

·Jan 28, 2020

My guess would be a 145.022-68 "Transitional" with the wrong case back. The crown is from something else by the looks of it. Slightly to small and to many teeth. Maybe a newer bezel also?

Edited: Jan 29, 2020

 

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Pinoysurf

·Jan 28, 2020

The lume on the hands look kinda funny too. I vote Transitional movement and dial though. The rest of the parts I think have just been thrown on it. A great project for a watchmaker apprentice though...😉

 

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joe band

·Jan 28, 2020

145.022-68 transitional makes the most sense... much easier to mistakenly swap casebacks than refit a 321 dial to an 861.

have a basic service and enjoy it as it is.

 

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Dan S

·Jan 28, 2020

Agree with all that has been said above. You would need a 145.022-68 case-back and a DON bezel to make it totally correct (and the correct 24-tooth crown, if you're a stickler, which some of us are). These can be found, given patience and funds, but there's no reason you can't enjoy the watch as it is in the meantime. Congrats!

If you are daring, you could pay for an Extract of the Archives. You might find that the watch was delivered quite near the moon launch or landing!

Edited: Jan 28, 2020

 

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Tom Dick

·Jan 29, 2020

Not sure I fully agree with the DON bezel comment, this is a correct original decimal bezel and far rarer than the DON, these were available as factory options when new and the one on this example is the original real deal not the aftermarket replacement

 

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Krisgrum

·Jan 29, 2020

Thank you all for your comments, i appreciate it!
Unfortunately, no records is available, regarding the probability of a mix-up during a service.
I've come to appreciate the details, when it comes to vintage collecting, so i'm gonna do some hunting, regarding the caseback and the crown.
I'm not gonna replace the bezel, as i enjoy the even composition of the numbering, against the Tachymeter ones.

 

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JwRosenthal

·Jan 29, 2020

Congrats on getting a prize. Is agree with others, just enjoy it as is- it’s very attractive and I agree with you about the decimal bezel, I think it’s actually cleaner and less busy looking than the tacky bezel and gives the watches a totally different look.

 

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gefmey

·Jan 29, 2020

J joe band

145.022-68 transitional makes the most sense... much easier to mistakenly swap casebacks than refit a 321 dial to an 861.

have a basic service and enjoy it as it is.

+1

 

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Enoerik

·Jun 6, 2020

K Krisgrum

Thank you all for your comments, i appreciate it!
Unfortunately, no records is available, regarding the probability of a mix-up during a service.
I've come to appreciate the details, when it comes to vintage collecting, so i'm gonna do some hunting, regarding the caseback and the crown.
I'm not gonna replace the bezel, as i enjoy the even composition of the numbering, against the Tachymeter ones.

Hello, You didn’t succeed, cause I have the watch now, se new tread

 

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Enoerik

·Jun 6, 2020

E Enoerik

Hello, You didn’t succeed, cause I have the watch now, se new tread

....same caseback. Do You also live in Denmark?