Community Stories

F1 2022

Foo2rama
Posts
17,595
Likes
26,687
Martin_J_N Martin_J_N
I’m not convinced that F1 is anywhere near being green, what is the mpg for an F1 car, 30, 40, 50mpg? What about the cost of their tyres, tyres that get used for less than 100 miles in most cases and you hear frequently that the tyre is shot after a couple of laps?

Yes F1 has given us some technology but at what cost to the the environment? The hybrid engines were in normal cars Toyota Prius well before F1 had them, yes F1 has refined that style of engine but it didn’t introduce them.

Don’t get me wrong I’m a fan of F1 but I do wonder what it brings to the table in terms of sustainability and its green credentials.

20 cars which paved the way for better emissions in millions of cars. Who cares if those 20 are green. The sport does far more good then it hurts.
 
texasmade
Posts
2,400
Likes
2,522
Martin_J_N Martin_J_N
I’m not convinced that F1 is anywhere near being green, what is the mpg for an F1 car, 30, 40, 50mpg? What about the cost of their tyres, tyres that get used for less than 100 miles in most cases and you hear frequently that the tyre is shot after a couple of laps?

Yes F1 has given us some technology but at what cost to the the environment? The hybrid engines were in normal cars Toyota Prius well before F1 had them, yes F1 has refined that style of engine but it didn’t introduce them.

Don’t get me wrong I’m a fan of F1 but I do wonder what it brings to the table in terms of sustainability and its green credentials.
Well they have to start somewhere. Cutting out the flyovers is just a small step but that's better than no steps being taken.
 
Archer
Posts
27,595
Likes
70,199
Martin_J_N Martin_J_N
I’m not convinced that F1 is anywhere near being green, what is the mpg for an F1 car, 30, 40, 50mpg? What about the cost of their tyres, tyres that get used for less than 100 miles in most cases and you hear frequently that the tyre is shot after a couple of laps?

Yes F1 has given us some technology but at what cost to the the environment? The hybrid engines were in normal cars Toyota Prius well before F1 had them, yes F1 has refined that style of engine but it didn’t introduce them.

Don’t get me wrong I’m a fan of F1 but I do wonder what it brings to the table in terms of sustainability and its green credentials.

Likely the fuel used in the race pales in comparison to what is needed to schlep the cars and people all around the world in a season...
 
Scarecrow Boat
Posts
6,348
Likes
26,231
Archer Archer
Likely the fuel used in the race pales in comparison to what is needed to schlep the cars and people all around the world in a season...
Yup.

Keep in mind, this video only illustrates the shipping side of F1 and does not include the private jets, airliners, helicopter cameras, emergency delivering of parts/updates, rigs carrying team convenience buildings, motor homes for driver sleeping, and many more vehicles used for each weekend.

 
redpcar
Posts
3,881
Likes
8,733
Archer Archer
Likely the fuel used in the race pales in comparison to what is needed to schlep the cars and people all around the world in a season...
What about all the fuel consumed to have fans in the seats? The list could go on and on. I just think it's a little hypocritical to cut the flyover arguing to save on fuel. The entire sport is obnoxious consumption.

I do love to watch / attend it. The glitz, the glamor, the grid gir... oops that's the good 'ol days. 😉
 
Archer
Posts
27,595
Likes
70,199
redpcar redpcar
What about all the fuel consumed to have fans in the seats? The list could go on and on. I just think it's a little hypocritical to cut the flyover arguing to save on fuel. The entire sport is obnoxious consumption.

I do love to watch / attend it. The glitz, the glamor, the grid gir... oops that's the good 'ol days. 😉

Yes, no doubt the sport is obnoxious consumption. For me the issue with the flyover isn't the fuel, but associating a sporting event with the military. It's propaganda that doesn't belong IMO...
 
redpcar
Posts
3,881
Likes
8,733
Have you ever watched "Racing the Silver Arrows". F1 in pre WWII. Awesome! The German GP's would set off a HUGE cannon to start the race. 1200hp dual stage super charged engines on bicycle tired cars. Crazy.
 
Martin_J_N
Posts
1,396
Likes
2,705
Archer Archer
Likely the fuel used in the race pales in comparison to what is needed to schlep the cars and people all around the world in a season...

A good point but I’m sure that they plant a tree to offset their carbon footprint

😀
 
Martin_J_N
Posts
1,396
Likes
2,705
redpcar redpcar
Have you ever watched "Racing the Silver Arrows". F1 in pre WWII. Awesome! The German GP's would set off a HUGE cannon to start the race. 1200hp dual stage super charged engines on bicycle tired cars. Crazy.

And the drivers were effectively sitting on top of the fuel tank, scary stuff

😲
 
Texasjohn
Posts
208
Likes
983
I have to laugh at those who say that F1 tech trickles down to every day consumer products. Let’s be honest F1 tech trickles down from products developed for military application’s. Carbon fiber is a prime example.

The high potential strength of carbon fiber was realized in 1963 in a process developed by W. Watt, L. N. Phillips, and W. Johnson at the Royal Aircraft Establishment at Farnborough, Hampshire. The process was patented by the UK Ministry of Defence, then licensed by the British National Research Development Corporation to three companies: Rolls-Royce, who were already making carbon fiber; Morganite; and Courtaulds. Within a few years, after successful use in 1968 of a Hyfil carbon-fiber fan assembly in the Rolls-Royce Conway jet engines of the Vickers VC10,[6] Rolls-Royce took advantage of the new material's properties to break into the American market with its RB-211 aero-engine with carbon-fiber compressor blades. Unfortunately, the blades proved vulnerable to damage from bird impact. This problem and others caused Rolls-Royce such setbacks that the company was nationalized in 1971. The carbon-fiber production plant was sold off to form Bristol Composite Materials Engineering Ltd[7] (Often referred to as Bristol Composites).
 
dsio
Posts
30,137
Likes
35,934
Not really sure how tech going from aerospace to F1 precludes road car applications from coming out of F1
 
Foo2rama
Posts
17,595
Likes
26,687
Texasjohn Texasjohn
I have to laugh at those who say that F1 tech trickles down to every day consumer products. Let’s be honest F1 tech trickles down from products developed for military application’s. Carbon fiber is a prime example.

The high potential strength of carbon fiber was realized in 1963 in a process developed by W. Watt, L. N. Phillips, and W. Johnson at the Royal Aircraft Establishment at Farnborough, Hampshire. The process was patented by the UK Ministry of Defence, then licensed by the British National Research Development Corporation to three companies: Rolls-Royce, who were already making carbon fiber; Morganite; and Courtaulds. Within a few years, after successful use in 1968 of a Hyfil carbon-fiber fan assembly in the Rolls-Royce Conway jet engines of the Vickers VC10,[6] Rolls-Royce took advantage of the new material's properties to break into the American market with its RB-211 aero-engine with carbon-fiber compressor blades. Unfortunately, the blades proved vulnerable to damage from bird impact. This problem and others caused Rolls-Royce such setbacks that the company was nationalized in 1971. The carbon-fiber production plant was sold off to form Bristol Composite Materials Engineering Ltd[7] (Often referred to as Bristol Composites).

Carbon Fiber was used structurally and as external load bearing skins in race cars predates its use in military aircraft. (looks at the B-1A, looks at the GT40 mk 5?)

Kers has directly trickled down into hybrids and energy harvesting in braking, not a military use.

Direct injection also now in road cars and not used for the military.

Active suspension in cars came from F1.

Traction control

ABS

Oh the cars will all run sustainable made fuel next year... ie not pumped from the ground.

Tire technology... better grip and lower resistance...

I can keep going.
 
redpcar
Posts
3,881
Likes
8,733
ABS was first started with aircraft. Fully implemented for the Concorde in the late 60s but experiments dating way before.
 
dsio
Posts
30,137
Likes
35,934
The tyre tech is enormous, there was this quantum leap that happened around the late 90s / early 2000s that made every car instantly much safer and much quicker if equipped. Then more recently there’s been another big upgrade in the last few years.

I spoke to a bmw engineer many years ago about the subframe problems that plagued the E46 3 series and he mentioned the subframe actually wasn’t any weaker than an E30 or E36, the big issue was that on the earlier cars if you dumped the clutch at high revs the tyres would spin or the clutch would slip, acting as release valves for the forces. With the E46, the clutch didn’t slip, and the OEM Pilot Sport 2 tyres didn’t spin, they just gripped, causing all of the force to be directed into the chassis as flexing.

Even in regular driving owners found they could take off at low rpm more aggressively with far less clutch slip and no risk of wheel spin and over time that continual flexing would cause stress fractures of the metal.
 
A
Posts
116
Likes
66
Archer Archer
Yes, no doubt the sport is obnoxious consumption. For me the issue with the flyover isn't the fuel, but associating a sporting event with the military. It's propaganda that doesn't belong IMO...

Marketing, propaganda, all to the same end. The whole F1 concept has changed over time from man mastering machine to development of future technologies with a driver thrown in and someone has to try and harness the market place to their own ends. Like it or not, F1 is tailor made for interest by members of the military, not all, but many.
 
Foo2rama
Posts
17,595
Likes
26,687
@dsio

the e9 and e24 (2.8/3.0cs and 6er) also had rear subframe issues.

BMW can be as stubborn as anyone and pretend issues don’t exist… just ask the e9x m owners about rod bearings… which should have been fixed after the first thousand or so s54 engines in the preceding car.

(proud e46m3 owner here and acutely aware of the sub frame randomness).
 
Foo2rama
Posts
17,595
Likes
26,687
redpcar redpcar
ABS was first started with aircraft. Fully implemented for the Concorde in the late 60s but experiments dating way before.
Who perfected it in cars with 2 and three channel systems?
 
Foo2rama
Posts
17,595
Likes
26,687
Vercingetorix Vercingetorix
Chrysler.
Via? Which purchase? And where did they get it?

Lamborghini and racing not F1 so I’ll admit it was not F1 and I was wrong.
 
896 More Posts...
Sign up or log in to reply...

Similar threads

vbrad26

2023 Formula 1 Thread

vbrad26 Open Discussion
texasmade
texasmade
Posts
1K
Views
45K
vbrad26

F1 2021

vbrad26 Open Discussion
MRC
MRC
Posts
1K
Views
65K
Wivac

F1 2020

Wivac Open Discussion
simonsays
simonsays
Posts
941
Views
76K