F1 2020

scv55 · Aug 11, 2020

Dogmann
Hi all

With all the latest noise about what action should be taken and what penalties should also be imposed on Racing Point I find it truly mind blowing that one of the biggest protesters should be Ferrari. I mean really after their last investigation being all behind closed doors with no admissions of guilt or what they actually did wrong made public for them to be shouting the loudest for stiffer penalties is laughable at best. Just in case anyone has any doubts about IF Ferrari where cheating or not just look at the lost and lack of performance of all the Ferrari powered cars once they had to stop cheating for proof and also look at how long it is taking them to try and get back that performance to as so far they look worse than 2018 cars.

Marc

Ferrari 'broke/bent' the rules, they stopped doing it. Why won't Racing Point? I think that's the point, imo.

They FIA say "this is breaking the rules" but go ahead, continue racing the illegal car.

Dogmann · Aug 11, 2020

@scv55

Not at any point in my post did I either try and say or suggest that Racing Point are innocent or guilty of anything that may still need to be decided by an appeals court.

What I was saying is that I find it really amusing that Ferrari a team with a great history of shall we say bending the rules if not out right cheating in the past and then especially after last years actions and behaviours. Should be the last team on the grid to be asking for tougher penalties as the hypocrisy in doing so is just too funny to be believed.

As for your "Ferrari 'broke/bent' the rules, they stopped doing it."

They only stopped it because they were forced to not because they are nice or good guys but because they got caught and were forced. Only due to Ferrari International Assistance was there dirty secret of just how much cheating they and every other Ferrari powered team were engaged in kept quiet. Alfa have gone from a strong midfield team to back of the grid. Haas has also suddenly become much worse performance wise to and only Le Clerc driving the car beyond its capabilities so far has saved Ferrari from being middle of pack also ran's. My point is Ferrari trying to take the moral high ground on cheating and punishments is so much Pot calling Kettle black as to be truly unbelievable. IMHO they should hide in shame and keep quiet lest more people remind them of their most recent actions regarding bending the rules and cheating themselves along with the lack of punishments for doing so.

Marc

simonsays · Aug 12, 2020

I was looking at the 6 drivers not taking the knee, and find it disappointing to see that they are not showing solidarity, given an international platform to show a united front against racism. My opinion of them has dropped and I see Max Verstappen and Charles LeClerc are in this group. High profile drivers

scv55 · Aug 12, 2020

Dogmann
@scv55

Not at any point in my post did I either try and say or suggest that Racing Point are innocent or guilty of anything that may still need to be decided by an appeals court.

What I was saying is that I find it really amusing that Ferrari a team with a great history of shall we say bending the rules if not out right cheating in the past and then especially after last years actions and behaviours. Should be the last team on the grid to be asking for tougher penalties as the hypocrisy in doing so is just too funny to be believed.

As for your "Ferrari 'broke/bent' the rules, they stopped doing it."

They only stopped it because they were forced to not because they are nice or good guys but because they got caught and were forced. Only due to Ferrari International Assistance was there dirty secret of just how much cheating they and every other Ferrari powered team were engaged in kept quiet. Alfa have gone from a strong midfield team to back of the grid. Haas has also suddenly become much worse performance wise to and only Le Clerc driving the car beyond its capabilities so far has saved Ferrari from being middle of pack also ran's. My point is Ferrari trying to take the moral high ground on cheating and punishments is so much Pot calling Kettle black as to be truly unbelievable. IMHO they should hide in shame and keep quiet lest more people remind them of their most recent actions regarding bending the rules and cheating themselves along with the lack of punishments for doing so.

Marc

Nobody but Ferrari and the FIA know if it was "cheating" or taking advantage of regulation ambiguity. Also, nobody but Ferrari and the FIA know the punishment for it, so it's all just speculation as to whether they got off easy.

I would look at it from the view, and its my opinion, that because they were caught doing something that was bad, they are the first people to say "Okay, then enforce the same on other teams i.e. Racing Point."

I'm not disagreeing with you, merely looking at the situation from a different perspective.

Dogmann · Aug 12, 2020

@scv55

When you say "Nobody but Ferrari and the FIA know if it was "cheating" or taking advantage of regulation ambiguity." that's exactly my point and why so many teams where less than happy about the outcome of the investigation being kept secret. Why should Ferrari get yet again special treatment via Ferrari International Assistance as it's also what makes Ferrari's stance now so hypocritical. Oh yes Ferrari and all the Teams using their engines were indeed punished and heavily going from having the most powerful engine in F1 to where they are now which is nowhere and really struggling to get anywhere anytime soon by the looks of it. Anyway everyone is entitled to their own opinion on the situation mine is and won't change that Ferrari should be the last team making a noise or fuss as people in glass houses really shouldn't through stones or lob bricks.

Marc

Update

It appears the only two teams that are still lodging a compliant are the most desperate to obtain higher placings at any cost due to their poor performances so its just Renault and Ferrari left then.

arturo7 · Aug 12, 2020

Dogmann
"Why should Ferrari get yet again special treatment.."

Probably because over 1/3 of the F1 fan base root for Ferrari.

Lurk41 · Aug 12, 2020

simonsays
I was looking at the 6 drivers not taking the knee, and find it disappointing to see that they are not showing solidarity, given an international platform to show a united front against racism. My opinion of them has dropped and I see Max Verstappen and Charles LeClerc are in this group. High profile drivers

It is not because they are not taking the knee that they are not showing solidarity. Taking the knee is a thing exported from the US, that became very common on Anglo-Saxon countries (from what I understand) but that means nothing on most countries of the planet. I can perfectly understand why these guys are not doing it and prefer to stand and wear a "End Racism" t-shirt instead: this message is better received on their home countries

texasmade · Aug 12, 2020

Ferrari's punishment is 3 races in Italy for the 2020 season. They get to be embarrassed by Mercedes, RB and potentially some midfield teams on home soil. Just imagine how gut wrenching it'll be for Ferrari if they get lapped again by Mercedes in one of the Italian GP's.

simonsays · Aug 12, 2020

Lurk41
It is not because they are not taking the knee that they are not showing solidarity. Taking the knee is a thing exported from the US, that became very common on Anglo-Saxon countries (from what I understand) but that means nothing on most countries of the planet. I can perfectly understand why these guys are not doing it and prefer to stand and wear a "End Racism" t-shirt instead: this message is better received on their home countries

As a European from the UK I can easily understand the significance of taking the knee. I think that these guys who are the definition of white privilege are very much failing in their duty to project an image of solidarity and a believable desire for change. I don’t expect athletes to be clever or politically astute, but they have been advised badly and have very much gone down in my esteem. Shame on them!

Vercingetorix · Aug 12, 2020

End racism and having Aramco as a sponsor seems rather hypocritical to me.

redpcar · Aug 12, 2020

simonsays
As a European from the UK I can easily understand the significance of taking the knee. I think that these guys who are the definition of white privilege are very much failing in their duty to project an image of solidarity and a believable desire for change. I don’t expect athletes to be clever or politically astute, but they have been advised badly and have very much gone down in my esteem. Shame on them!

Let's not bully people to do what we want.

I relate "taking a knee" to Game of Thrones - kneel to your master. Or your religion to kneel to your god. It means different things to different people. I prefer the "End Racism" shirts/banners. Spell it out so all can understand the message. Seems that taking a knee is dividing more than making us aware of racism.

Why can't we stand for our anthem and wear the shirt or pin?

In the end, F1 is racing. Put politics aside and root for your team/driver.

scv55 · Aug 12, 2020

Well, if F1 wants to join in on these political issues, then they should go ahead and stop racing in China.

"Definition of white privilege" yet the sports history is littered with South Americans, Russians, Asians, Indians, and travels to Asia, N & S America, and the Middle East bringing a bunch of money with it. The driver who's been on top and is considered a god is praised, and has been for the last decade. Definition of white privilege?

Reality check...

simonsays · Aug 12, 2020

redpcar
Let's not bully people to do what we want.

I relate "taking a knee" to Game of Thrones - kneel to your master. Or your religion to kneel to your god. It means different things to different people. I prefer the "End Racism" shirts/banners. Spell it out so all can understand the message. Seems that taking a knee is dividing more than making us aware of racism.

Why can't we stand for our anthem and wear the shirt or pin?

In the end, F1 is racing. Put politics aside and root for your team/driver.

I agree taking the knee does seem to divide. I question the motives of those who fear or dislike it though. Many of its detractors seem to miss the point, and don’t accept the depth of the problem of racism in society. Or would like to keep the status quo.
If you have the privilege of being in a position of influence just do the right thing and put your full weight into getting the message across. I don’t think any decent person could be offended by supporting equality? Like racing I think politics should be put aside when dealing with racism.

simonsays · Aug 12, 2020

scv55
Well, if F1 wants to join in on these political issues, then they should go ahead and stop racing in China.

"Definition of white privilege" yet the sports history is littered with South Americans, Russians, Asians, Indians, and travels to Asia, N & S America, and the Middle East bringing a bunch of money with it. The driver who's been on top and is considered a god is praised, and has been for the last decade. Definition of white privilege?

Reality check...

Wow! Count how many Black F1 drivers there have been in the history of the sport. You have your head in the sand.

scv55 · Aug 12, 2020

simonsays
Wow! Count how many Black F1 drivers there have been in the history of the sport. You have your head in the sand.

This would be like somebody making the case that the NBA is "racist" because it's predominantly non-white

Vercingetorix · Aug 12, 2020

This whole line of discussion should stop before this thread gets deleted. ::stirthepot::

redpcar · Aug 12, 2020

There is no way we are going to solve it here. <I knew I shouldn't have gotten sucked in to this>
Every time these threads take this turn, they get turned off.
Can we get back to F1?

Ferrari cheats.
Williams is slow.
Vettel is toast.
Kimi is retiring
Kvyat is on the way out.
What's up with Pirelli? Bring in Goodyear?
How about those 18 in wheels?

texasmade · Aug 12, 2020

It's clear Ferrari and Vettel don't give a crap about each other. Vettel should just walk out right before Monza as a giant FU to Ferrari.

LeClerc will never be a WCC with Ferrari.

scv55 · Aug 12, 2020

Not to sound conspiratorial but do we think Ferrari is intentionally giving Seb the short end of the stick with the performance of his car? He tells them that he is driving it to its maximum, and yet the results compared to Leclerc.

I wouldn't doubt Ferrari would make him look bad, justifying the contract termination. Not saying Seb hasn't had his errors that is for sure!

scv55 · Aug 12, 2020

redpcar
There is no way we are going to solve it here. <I knew I shouldn't have gotten sucked in to this>
Every time these threads take this turn, they get turned off.
Can we get back to F1?

Ferrari cheats.
Williams is slow.
Vettel is toast.
Kimi is retiring
Kvyat is on the way out.
What's up with Pirelli? Bring in Goodyear?
How about those 18 in wheels?

I think a second tire manufacture would be an excellent addition to the sport, especially given how critical tires have become. All the teams do is focus on tire strategy

F1 2020

scv55

Dogmann

simonsays

scv55

Dogmann

arturo7

Lurk41

texasmade

simonsays

Vercingetorix

redpcar

scv55

simonsays

simonsays

scv55

Vercingetorix

redpcar

texasmade

scv55

scv55

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