Experiences/Tips on getting started with servicing for myself?

ErichKeane · Jan 22, 2025

You guys talked me into it 😀 I bought some Bergeon 7422s for way more than tweezers should cost! Hopefully those'll be good enough to get started.

I'm putting together some movements to play with, and setting an order of projects. PROBABLY in this order, though open to input:

ST36: As Archer suggested, a clone movement that won't end up in a watch, but should be good to practice on.

NH34: One I have in a drawer, probably an ali-express clone. If I lose/break parts on this one, no harm done 😀

Vintage Waltham Pocket Watch: https://www.ebay.com/itm/296942670884 Seems to be running, though perhaps low amplitude based on my ears. I'm hopeful this one is just a service

Vintage Elgin Pocket Watch: https://www.ebay.com/itm/256782510325 Haven't gotten it yet, but this one is perhaps a repair project, so I'll see whether this one gets moved down the line based on a disassembly.

Zenith 12-4p: https://omegaforums.net/threads/1940s-zenith-12-4p.180185/ A beautiful watch with a great dial, I just got it today! Looks like it needs a little TLC (the crystal popped out during shipping, and the hands need reset. As far as I can tell, it runs nicely.

Longines 528 Square Watch: I can't find the listing again, but I got it here too. This one the seller said runs fine, but I'll measure anyway! It would be great to see if I get good enough to improve this one.

OVERALL:

The 1st 2 are effectively 'throw away' if I mess them up (or probably, even if I don't), so I intend to practice on them quite a bit until I'm comfortable with both.

The pocket watches are "would be nice to save, but probably stay in my drawer". So I figure even if the Elgin isn't saveable, it is good practice. But again, I'll probably practice on these a bunch before I'm comfortable with the last 2.

The last 2 are inexpensive enough that I won't be horribly heart broken if I ruin them, but I'm hopeful the above 4 will make me good enough before I touch them. The hope is that I can get them running nicely and healthily, then gift them to a yet-undetermined-friend who will appreciate them.

WestCoastTime · Thurs. 10:06pm

E ErichKeane
...
2- Where I can find those sorts of watches? I have been keeping an eye here, on reddit, and WUS, but older watches in the ~$500 range that need a service are rare (most I see in that range are 'oh, this is recently serviced'!). I would love to find a "needs a service, but is otherwise in nice shape" watch that I would wear (read: 34+mm, round, good looking, good brand) or be nice enough to give away as a meaningful gift, but I don't really know if there is a place I should be looking?

Might start out by looking for mid-60's Tissot / Hamilton / Benrus, & similar. These are fine quality Swiss movements & available for much less than Omega / Longines of this era. (And also capable of some pretty impressive timekeeping accuracy once serviced & regulated...)

JimInOz · Fri. 2:17am

WestCoastTime
Might start out by looking for mid-60's Tissot / Hamilton / Benrus, & similar.

Agree, there are dozens of brands using ETA1080s etc etc and they are reasonably cheap.

I would however, suggest the learning curve of movements goes thus:

1 - Decent pocket watch size (ETA 6497 etc).
2 - Seiko 7S26 or equivalent, plentiful on eBay.
3 - Swiss movements - basic time only, then graduate to autos where there are some interesting and frustrating designs.

ErichKeane · Fri. 8:46am

JimInOz
Agree, there are dozens of brands using ETA1080s etc etc and they are reasonably cheap.

I would however, suggest the learning curve of movements goes thus:

1 - Decent pocket watch size (ETA 6497 etc).
2 - Seiko 7S26 or equivalent, plentiful on eBay.
3 - Swiss movements - basic time only, then graduate to autos where there are some interesting and frustrating designs.

Great! I THINK that is the start of my order right now. The ST36 is an ETA6497 clone. NH34 is a 7S26 + GMT hand. Thanks for reconfirming at least the start 😀

BAJJ · Sat. 5:30am

I am at the start of this hobby as well, definitely the best thing I did was purchasing a couple of horotech brass tweezers, things can still fly but not nearly half as much as before and not half as far, relatively expensive but well worth it. I also got an ST36 that I can comfortably dis and re assemble with out issues, it’s running better than when it arrived as I have oiled it. I moved on to a Lanco 1337 and to be honest fairly butchered it, it’s so much smaller than the ST36, but I have a doner movement coming that I will use to rebuild. After that I refurbished an old family pocket watch movement that hadn’t seen a service since the 60’s and it came out well, that was very satisfying. So, you will have disasters but bit by bit with practice you will get better.
One of the good pieces of advice I have seen is from Kalle Slaap of the Chronoglide you tube channel, don’t forget to breathe, it’s amazing when concentrating hard you do stop breathing and then a big inhale and things tend to go flying.
Have fun😁

mrEgon · Sat. 7:02am

I’ve been repairing watches for a few years now but I consider myself just a reasonably skilled hobbyist. I started out as well getting addicted to YouTube videos, and I sourced many knowledge and information from there.

I believe it makes sense to begin with watches you feel something for, although, at the beginning, you should expect to make some mistakes, break or lose parts etc. Thus consider the pros and cons in possibility damage a potentially original piece that you’d want to keep and wear just because of inexperience. But I totally understand the difference in the emotional counterpart in working on something you like and feel valuable for you. Back in time I personally started with Seiko, and even I they are not that much appealing to you, they’re respectable and enjoyable caliber to work with, there’s a huge market for spare parts and donor watches in various conditions, and you can explore different complication and configuration getting confident with basic similar solutions, from mechanic to automatic, with or without date etc.

To start, I think a movement holder, a good set of screwdrivers, and a pair of tweezers are enough. Just taking a movement apart, putting it back together, and understanding its engineering solutions can be very satisfying. However, if you want to do actual servicing, you’ll need to get into lubrication (very broad and variegated topic), mainspring replacement, and time adjustment on a chronograph, at least. Proper lubrication with proper oils is essential for preserving and having a good working caliber. Reading the final results on a timegrapher lets you see whether you’re gradually improved or making some mistakes. Then there’s an entire world of specialized tools for any purpose, and the only real limit is just in your imagination or in your wallet.

I’d recommend avoiding pocket watches and get just used to the smaller size and different fragility of wristwatch movements if that’s your ultimate goal.

Lastly, if you want to start with something more “appealing” than a Seiko, I’d suggest something like an Omega Geneve or Seamaster with maybe a 601 caliber. It’s a very nice, precise, and straightforward movement, and spare parts or donor calibers are fairly easy to be found around.
The online used market is a good source for part, tools, and watches, but often it requires patience, time and knowledge to find exactly what you need. In Europe for spare parts I experienced several specialized websites and platform that offer a wide selection of original pieces with impeccable service so far. If you’re interested, I can share those websites.

Good luck, and I hope you can start soon with this great adventure!

JPMiu · Sun. 11:47pm

Boy could I write a novel for you.

The #1 thing I hear repeated over and over is start recording everything you do. Be it just on a phone or computer zoomed in on the movement. You will forget where things go or how it came apart while waiting for parts etc. just do it.

Can really get into the weeds with parts like others have stated. Just get some basic stuff, make sure you have a solid magnifying glass and since you’re already taking things apart, might as well at least put a little oil on them. Moebius 8000 is cheap and easy way to start without braking the bank yet still providing lubrication. Some will say no you need $140 in oils plus breaking grease and a $60 oil holder… I digress, record your work & M8000!

God Bless

mrEgon · Mon. 1:02am

J JPMiu
Boy could I write a novel for you.

The #1 thing I hear repeated over and over is start recording everything you do. Be it just on a phone or computer zoomed in on the movement. You will forget where things go or how it came apart while waiting for parts etc. just do it.

Can really get into the weeds with parts like others have stated. Just get some basic stuff, make sure you have a solid magnifying glass and since you’re already taking things apart, might as well at least put a little oil on them. Moebius 8000 is cheap and easy way to start without braking the bank yet still providing lubrication. Some will say no you need $140 in oils plus breaking grease and a $60 oil holder… I digress, record your work & M8000!

God Bless

A great tip is to record or at least take pictures (which is something I still do for new calibers I haven't disassembled before). A good magnifier is another must-have that I forgot to mention. As for lubrication, while I agree with the general principle that "done is better than perfect," to me this doesn't fully apply if you're willing to work with watches like vintage Longines, Omegas, etc, as ErichKeane mentioned. Lubrication is not only important for good performance but also for preserving the movement over time. While it’s true that some lubrication is better than none, understanding in principle why you need to use different oils somewhere in the gears instead of grease is a fundamental piece knowledge. Once you grasp that, you’ll understand why investing in couple of oils and even some grease might be necessary. If you are fine in picking up and work in watches in the range from hundreds of bucks and more, few tens of dollar in oils (that will last you for years) is a good investment, imo. No need to spend a fortune on expensive oilers—I still use Bergeon 30102 needles (less than 10 bucks) and a 3-Hole Watch Oil Cup Dish (around $8).

JPMiu · Mon. 1:08am

mrEgon
A great tip is to record or at least take pictures (which is something I still do for new calibers I haven't disassembled before). A good magnifier is another must-have that I forgot to mention. As for lubrication, while I agree with the general principle that "done is better than perfect," to me this doesn't fully apply if you're willing to work with watches like vintage Longines, Omegas, etc, as ErichKeane mentioned. Lubrication is not only important for good performance but also for preserving the movement over time. While it’s true that some lubrication is better than none, understanding in principle why you need to use different oils somewhere in the gears instead of grease is a fundamental piece knowledge. Once you grasp that, you’ll understand why investing in couple of oils and even some grease might be necessary. If you are fine in picking up and work in watches in the range from hundreds of bucks and more, few tens of dollar in oils (that will last you for years) is a good investment, imo. No need to spend a fortune on expensive oilers—I still use Bergeon 30102 needles (less than 10 bucks) and a 3-Hole Watch Oil Cup Dish (around $8).

Completely agree with you. I’ll surely have the full $150 worth of Moebius by the time I service my new to me JLC. But you could argue that in the 1950s when the watch came out they weren’t using more than M8000 - if even - while yes you will need to service more, it can be done. I do think having all the tools is right spot to be but practicing with a $20 Waltham from eBay or some pocket watches, starting with oil is better than simply disassembling and reassembling. But while we’re here, cleaning is better than not, etc etc etc.

mrEgon · Mon. 3:46am

J JPMiu
Completely agree with you. I’ll surely have the full $150 worth of Moebius by the time I service my new to me JLC. But you could argue that in the 1950s when the watch came out they weren’t using more than M8000 - if even - while yes you will need to service more, it can be done. I do think having all the tools is right spot to be but practicing with a $20 Waltham from eBay or some pocket watches, starting with oil is better than simply disassembling and reassembling. But while we’re here, cleaning is better than not, etc etc etc.

Yes, you’re absolutely right. In the past, lubrication wasn’t as sophisticated as it is today and often made with less durable, natural products, yet these watches still survive until now. And yes, there’s no point in considering lubrication in depth if you don't cleaning the movement properly first. It's kind of a journey of learning what you can, when you can, and improve here and there within the constraints of money, space and time🙂.

JPMiu · Mon. 3:57am

Wish I had more money, more space and last but surely not least…more time - as I’m sure we all do!

ErichKeane · Mon. 9:57am

I'd forgotten to mention, I picked up a pack of oils. Someone on ebay did a re-packaging of a couple of good ones, so I have

8200 grease
8217 grease
9010 oil
9415 grease
Microgliss D5
Molykote Dx paste

I figure a few of those will be a waste, but the 9010, and a few others will probably be useful. The 8217 and 8200 are listed as for the mainspring, so I'll likely get use out of those too.

mrEgon · Mon. 10:23am

E ErichKeane
I'd forgotten to mention, I picked up a pack of oils. Someone on ebay did a re-packaging of a couple of good ones, so I have

8200 grease
8217 grease
9010 oil
9415 grease
Microgliss D5
Molykote Dx paste

I figure a few of those will be a waste, but the 9010, and a few others will probably be useful. The 8217 and 8200 are listed as for the mainspring, so I'll likely get use out of those too.

the 9010 it a very good catch for sure, that will work absolutely well for many parts of the caliber!

ErichKeane · 2025-01-28T12:41:28-0600

Welp...
I decided that despite my canon pinion removal tool being lost in the mail, I'd get started on the ST36. The movement doesn't actually run it seems as received. The balance moves and seems to work there, but the second hand doesn't actually move, and the time grapher doesn't pick it up. I opted to take it apart anyway.

I took a little more than an hour I had between meetings and started taking it apart. I've been putting screws back where I found them when possible, and no problems there. I decided to do it in my roll-top desk to maximize the amount it is 'surrounded', though, that doesn't seem to have helped.

However, I had a minor mess up. When trying to put the click-screw back into place, I picked up the wood tweezers, which resulted in flinging the screw into the ether. So that one is gone now :/

I looked for ages on my low-pile carpet(the commercial work-tile type), but no luck.

I THEN made a bigger mess up. I opted to continue. I went beyond the point where I should have quit, and did basically the same with a pallet fork bridge screw. I used the right tweezers (some steel ones that are in good shape), but wasn't very calm at the time, so I managed to fling it across the room somewhere. I heard it bounce a few times off metal things, but I imagine it is gone as well.

So overall a frustrating first try :/ I will likely finish doing my tear down and see what I can do to finish this movement (fortunately the ST36 is cheap 😁) with the pieces I have as practice, but I've given up on this one being able to run.

JPMiu · 2025-01-28T12:47:53-0600

Dang man! Thanks for the update, we surely want to hear more as it goes. Do you have any big or really strong magnets around? Can wand the ground with those I’m sure you’ll find the screws with some patience

Archer · 2025-01-28T12:55:59-0600

J JPMiu
Dang man! Thanks for the update, we surely want to hear more as it goes. Do you have any big or really strong magnets around? Can wand the ground with those I’m sure you’ll find the screws with some patience

Yes, magnets or a stocking over a vacuum hose can be helpful. Working on carpet though is certainly not recommended.

E ErichKeane
So overall a frustrating first try :/ I will likely finish doing my tear down and see what I can do to finish this movement (fortunately the ST36 is cheap 😁) with the pieces I have as practice, but I've given up on this one being able to run.

If there are just a couple of screws missing, then it still should run fine once you replace those.

But working when tired or stressed is not a good idea, as it can often lead to mistakes that won't typically happen when you are relaxed and rested.

ErichKeane · 2025-01-28T13:07:03-0600

Archer
Yes, magnets or a stocking over a vacuum hose can be helpful. Working on carpet though is certainly not recommended.

If there are just a couple of screws missing, then it still should run fine once you replace those.

But working when tired or stressed is not a good idea, as it can often lead to mistakes that won't typically happen when you are relaxed and rested.

The ST36 is one of those that is not really valuable enough to replace parts AFAIK, so I just am ordering a replacement. So I'll clean/re-assemble this for practice, but not bother to replace the parts, and just start again with a 2nd one.

A magnet might help, but the issue is less "its in the carpet" (as it is a low pile carpet, so finding stuff is actually not too bad), but more "it could have bounced its way into other stuff in my office that I'll never find it in".

But yeah, just kinda frustrating 😀 Particularly as it is another week to get a replacement movement!

Archer · 2025-01-28T13:10:30-0600

E ErichKeane
The ST36 is one of those that is not really valuable enough to replace parts AFAIK, so I just am ordering a replacement. So I'll clean/re-assemble this for practice, but not bother to replace the parts, and just start again with a 2nd one.

A magnet might help, but the issue is less "its in the carpet" (as it is a low pile carpet, so finding stuff is actually not too bad), but more "it could have bounced its way into other stuff in my office that I'll never find it in".

But yeah, just kinda frustrating 😀 Particularly as it is another week to get a replacement movement!

Your first movement is now your spare parts source...😉

ErichKeane · 2025-01-28T13:12:30-0600

Archer
Your first movement is now your spare parts source...😉

Yep, thats sorta my thoughts on it 😀

ErichKeane · 2025-01-29T09:54:37-0600

SO i made a little bit of progress. I got the wheel train installed, plus the keyless works. BUT It came time to assemble the mainspring (in retrospect, removing it was a mistake...), and my chinese mainspring winder kit(https://www.amazon.com/dp/B099PCDPC1) doesn't have a matching winder for it. I was hopeful that the kit would have something serviceable, but I cannot for the life of me find one that'll work.

Anyone have tips/cross-references that might work, or should I just move on with practicing by skipping the mainspring?

Experiences/Tips on getting started with servicing for myself?

ErichKeane

WestCoastTime

JimInOz

ErichKeane

BAJJ

mrEgon

JPMiu

mrEgon

JPMiu

mrEgon

JPMiu

ErichKeane

mrEgon

ErichKeane

JPMiu

Archer

ErichKeane

Archer

ErichKeane

ErichKeane

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