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Experiences/Tips on getting started with servicing for myself?

E
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Hi all-
I've started to get addicted to watch servicing videos on Youtube, and, as someone who is pretty mechanically inclined, I like to do this sort of thing/know how to do this sort of thing. So far, I've done a couple of Seiko builds, though they are now in my son's toybox.

As far as tools, I believe I have everything I need except for: 1- bins for the ultrasonic to keep the parts organized, 2- a mainspring winder, 3- Oils/oilers/oil holders.

I think for #1 and #3 there, I can find inexpensive ones from the usual suspects that are reasonable. For #2, I will either do the "buy a new mainspring" thing, pick up a cheap mainspring winder, or make my own for whatever movement I end up working on.

HOWEVER, I have a few issues/questions.

1- In general, I think I'd like to start with a watch I would like to wear, or would wear some day. The inexpensive Seiko or Chinese movements don't really do this for me, so practicing on one of those movements I might do, but I won't really have interest in as a watch. So I'd like to start with something vintage Longines/Omega/etc.

2- Where I can find those sorts of watches? I have been keeping an eye here, on reddit, and WUS, but older watches in the ~$500 range that need a service are rare (most I see in that range are 'oh, this is recently serviced'!). I would love to find a "needs a service, but is otherwise in nice shape" watch that I would wear (read: 34+mm, round, good looking, good brand) or be nice enough to give away as a meaningful gift, but I don't really know if there is a place I should be looking?

3- When I DO shop for parts, mainsprings, etc, is there any good shops anyone could suggest? Or for most of the vintage, is looking on Ebay about as good as you can do?

Thank you all in advance, I realize I'll never be a watchmaker, but would love to service/do a few repairs a few times as entertainment.
 
dsstephens
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as a complete novice myself, I recommend either going through multiple of the online courses that are available with the inexpensive and infinitely replaceable movement they suggest (ie the st36 / 6497 clone) and taking it apart and putting it back together multiple times, as well as, if feasible, attending some of the in person classes with organizations like AWCI. At that point, you'll be ready to mess up your first nice movement because you didn't practice with your tweezers enough... but most things are fixable, if you can get the parts. 😀 That's just my experience.
 
sheepdoll
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Nothing beats first hand instruction. Find someone to mentor you.

One of my mentors would say reading the books is like looking over the shoulder of the author. The head often gets in the way. This is not to say books do not have value. I like books, and the old trade magazines. A lot of my opinion comes from such. I was however in a position to meet the authors. Many of their opinions are of a prior generation and may not apply in this day and age. Dial painting and case polishing was seen to be an advantage.

There is a temptation to go for cheap non working stuff. After 30 years I still have a lot of cheap non working stuff. So my recommendation is to get a good working watch that is in tip top shape and use that. Of one does not know how it should work, then no amount of time will be able to overcome this.

I have no affiliation with https://diywatch.club/ I do like to refer people to that site. If you do not like the prices, then this is not the hobby to pursue. A good practice watch will be in the three figures. Vintage watches have 50, 60 or more years on them, and can be quite tricky to start with.

Getting the basics down, such as how to sit, how high the bench should be (You will be sitting at such for long periods of time.) As noted how to hold the tweezers. How to hold a file. What makes a quality tool. Do not be tempted by cheap tools. They are expensive for a reason.

Some courses have one just spending time using a screwdriver to insert and remove 100s of screws. A lot of damage can be done in this area alone. Hairsprings are easy to mess up. A lot of the beater out there have messed up hairsprings. Unless one has access to good ones it is hard to figure out what is wrong, when there is a subtle bend, that is not obvious. There is little mass in these parts, so they do not move as one would expect. Centers of gravity are not where one expects. The slightest breath or sweep of the hand can send parts flying.

The YT vids are a lot of fun. I like watching them myself, but they are for entertainment and to gather clicks and keep one watching. There is a lot of editing. Many of them are simply opinion blogs, where the person talking just likes talking and telling stories. I often turn the sound off.
 
Danimals
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Pocket watches can be a cheap way to get some practice. Fairly available on eBay for decent prices, and parts are bigger on them making it easier to start
 
E
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sheepdoll sheepdoll
Nothing beats first hand instruction. Find someone to mentor you.

One of my mentors would say reading the books is like looking over the shoulder of the author. The head often gets in the way. This is not to say books do not have value. I like books, and the old trade magazines. A lot of my opinion comes from such. I was however in a position to meet the authors. Many of their opinions are of a prior generation and may not apply in this day and age. Dial painting and case polishing was seen to be an advantage.

There is a temptation to go for cheap non working stuff. After 30 years I still have a lot of cheap non working stuff. So my recommendation is to get a good working watch that is in tip top shape and use that. Of one does not know how it should work, then no amount of time will be able to overcome this.

I have no affiliation with https://diywatch.club/ I do like to refer people to that site. If you do not like the prices, then this is not the hobby to pursue. A good practice watch will be in the three figures. Vintage watches have 50, 60 or more years on them, and can be quite tricky to start with.

Getting the basics down, such as how to sit, how high the bench should be (You will be sitting at such for long periods of time.) As noted how to hold the tweezers. How to hold a file. What makes a quality tool. Do not be tempted by cheap tools. They are expensive for a reason.

Some courses have one just spending time using a screwdriver to insert and remove 100s of screws. A lot of damage can be done in this area alone. Hairsprings are easy to mess up. A lot of the beater out there have messed up hairsprings. Unless one has access to good ones it is hard to figure out what is wrong, when there is a subtle bend, that is not obvious. There is little mass in these parts, so they do not move as one would expect. Centers of gravity are not where one expects. The slightest breath or sweep of the hand can send parts flying.

The YT vids are a lot of fun. I like watching them myself, but they are for entertainment and to gather clicks and keep one watching. There is a lot of editing. Many of them are simply opinion blogs, where the person talking just likes talking and telling stories. I often turn the sound off.
Unfortunately finding first-hand instruction is difficult, particularly in rural America 😀 My local city (biggest in my state!) only has 1 watchmaker, and he' ssuper busy!

I DID do a diywatch club build, plus a few ali-express builds. So I have their tools/knowledge of hands/dial install, plus casing/etc. So i was hoping to dig in a little more.

The rest, great advice, thank you! I decided to order a few of the things I don't have, and just take the NH movement apart that I have and see how it goes. It is Ali-express fresh (from a watch build I never started), so perhaps a service isn't a bad idea 😀 And maybe I'll keep an eye out for a nice looking vintage 3 hander or pocket watch as @Danimals suggests!
 
Pip
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The professional watchmaker @Archer has very kindly posted ten or eleven excellent beginners threads in this forum. Search for "Basic Watchmaking Tips" - they are a great place to start and as someone who is several years into DIY servicing with a reasonable amount of chops I still find them very informative and useful. Also read as many of @Archer posts as you can. He really knows what he is doing!

As others have said, pocket watches are very satisfying and the parts are much bigger and easier to manipulate (and harder to lose), although you have indicated you want to tackle something more refined as your next project; in which case my biggest advice is to make sure that you can get spare parts for whatever it is you tackle.

And finally - remember it's a fun hobby, and just enjoy it. I have learnt (and relearnt when I forgot) the hard way - if you are not feeling, put the tools down and go and do some reading or watch a video or have a beer or whatever - you can't force it. When I try to push through tiredness or whatever is when I make the most mistakes.
 
E
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I've decided to get started on simple things 😀 I'm trying to get some inexpensive pocket watches on Ebay to practice on, plus I'll use a cheap NH clone I have to get used to things.

After that, I discovered this on the forum: https://omegaforums.net/threads/longines-manual-movement-added-obro.37936/#post-2441305

Its absolutely beautiful, apparently keeps wonderful time, though no known service history. I intend to wear it for a little while, and see how it shows on the timegrapher, and try my hand at servicing if it looks like it needs it and I feel comfortable with the others.

I have a friend in mind who I think will really like this one too, so I won't have to worry about it not getting enough wrist-time, which is a positive.
 
Archer
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Starting with an ETA 6497 or clone is good advice. There’s a reason most watchmaking schools use these. They are large, parts are relatively easy to find, and the parts are robust to withstand ham fisted beginners.

If you can get to the Cinci area, the AWCI puts on great 1 week long bench courses, which range from the very basics to more advanced topics. There’s really no replacement for in person training and these courses allow you to get very good instruction without having to spend 2 years in school. You take just take basic courses or go all in on the more in depth topics. There are prerequisites, so don’t expect to jump from a basic course to an automatic chronograph, or to adjusting escapements.
 
E
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Archer Archer
Starting with an ETA 6497 or clone is good advice. There’s a reason most watchmaking schools use these. They are large, parts are relatively easy to find, and the parts are robust to withstand ham fisted beginners.

If you can get to the Cinci area, the AWCI puts on great 1 week long bench courses, which range from the very basics to more advanced topics. There’s really no replacement for in person training and these courses allow you to get very good instruction without having to spend 2 years in school. You take just take basic courses or go all in on the more in depth topics. There are prerequisites, so don’t expect to jump from a basic course to an automatic chronograph, or to adjusting escapements.
That's awesome, thank you! Ive ordered a clone of one of those to mess with too.

I sadly can't go to Cincinnati any time soon, otherwise that sounds fun!

Really all I'm trying to get out of this is a hobby where I sometimes service /do minor repairs in watches that are cool/interesting to me. I'll probably just end up giving them away in the end 😀
 
Archer
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E ErichKeane
That's awesome, thank you! Ive ordered a clone of one of those to mess with too.

I sadly can't go to Cincinnati any time soon, otherwise that sounds fun!

Really all I'm trying to get out of this is a hobby where I sometimes service /do minor repairs in watches that are cool/interesting to me. I'll probably just end up giving them away in the end 😀
I understand you aren’t planning to become a watchmaker. However what the beginner course there would do is give you a good foundation for things like cleanliness, oiling, basics like dial and hand installation (something many amateur watchmakers find very challenging). Those are critical things even when doing rather small repairs.

The downside is, once you know what good work looks like, small repairs will be a thing of the past, as you will see that 99.99% of what lands on your bench will need to be fully serviced…
 
E
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Archer Archer
I understand you aren’t planning to become a watchmaker. However what the beginner course there would do is give you a good foundation for things like cleanliness, oiling, basics like dial and hand installation (something many amateur watchmakers find very challenging). Those are critical things even when doing rather small repairs.

The downside is, once you know what good work looks like, small repairs will be a thing of the past, as you will see that 99.99% of what lands on your bench will need to be fully serviced…
You're absolutely right... just ditching family and work to go half way across the country for a hobby is a tougher sell to the wife than my watch collection 😁
 
Archer
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E ErichKeane
You're absolutely right... just ditching family and work to go half way across the country for a hobby is a tougher sell to the wife than my watch collection 😁
Trust me, I get it…
 
JimInOz
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E ErichKeane
I'm trying to get some inexpensive pocket watches on Ebay to practice on
Most pocket watches you'll find will be bucket cases and they can be very difficult to work on.

When I made the decision to go beyond changing bracelets, the recommendation from somebody wise suggested getting a decent Swiss 6497 or 6498 to get familiar with. These are easy to work on and don't have the floppy jewels/pivots etc that the Chinese clones have.
When you decide to move to maller movements, I'd suggest Seiko/NH variants which can be purchased without breaking the bank.

One of the advantages in using a new/quality 6497 or a new NH35 is that all parts are original and haven't been jigged to make something work, the screws will also be original and correctly sized, not someting you'll find on eBay vintage bargains.

I've never had first hand tuition but just taught myself bit by bit.
Some of the most helpful guidance and advice has been from this forum and the professional and hobby watchmakers here.

🏹 deserves a lot of the credit for where I am today, but there are others.

To re-iterate, don't waste money on old tired crap, get quality/economical movements that have widely available documentation and parts availability and it will be an enjoyable journey.
 
Mkewatch
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Hi, recommend you get a second movement to the one you are going to use for practice.

The screws are very tiny and tend to fly very easy.

I lost one screw and couldn’t finish putting it together, I am waiting for a second movement to try a second time and use for spare parts.

Regards

Jorge
 
JimInOz
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Mkewatch Mkewatch
The screws are very tiny and tend to fly very easy.
Very early on I found that the reason I was pinging some things into space was that I was using tweezers that required too much force just to actually close. They were stainless steel rather cheap ones.

I now use bronze tweezers and they require very little force to close the tips.
This allows my to use minimal force when picking up screws, parts etc and I can actually feel when the tips are holding the item and only very light force is required to maintain the grip.
It's also easier to roll the tweezers in your hand, say if you pick up a screw and it's upside down, I can just roll the tweezers 180º between my fingers without losing my grip on the item.
 
Mkewatch
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JimInOz JimInOz
Very early on I found that the reason I was pinging some things into space was that I was using tweezers that required too much force just to actually close. They were stainless steel rather cheap ones.

I now use bronze tweezers and they require very little force to close the tips.
This allows my to use minimal force when picking up screws, parts etc and I can actually feel when the tips are holding the item and only very light force is required to maintain the grip.
It's also easier to roll the tweezers in your hand, say if you pick up a screw and it's upside down, I can just roll the tweezers 180º between my fingers without losing my grip on the item.
Hi JimInOz, this is very good advice. The screws went flying when I was using the tweezers.
 
JimInOz
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Some years ago I was following an on-line watch servicing course by Nick Hacko.
One of the things he suggested was to get two small trays and some tiny ball bearings, then practice picking up the bearings from one tray and transferring them to the other.
 
E
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I've done a decent amount of SMD soldering so I am pretty good with tweezers, so that isn't really my biggest fear. But good advice to practice/look into better tweezers.
 
sheepdoll
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I wreaked my old tweezers using them for SMD soldering. When I took up watchmaking again I found I was messing up balance hairsprings with them. Even after they were redressed.

Switched to the pricey bronze tweezers @Archer recommended. Like @JimInOz noted, parts do not fling as much. I also got some soft brass tweezers for working on the junk watches. Those have become my goto pair as the tips are easy to reform.

I still do use some SS tweezers for hairsprings. Per Henry Fried's notes. Not cheap either. These only touch hairsprings. I found that a #9 which is the curved hooked one and a beading needle (smallest I could find) works well for that.

One YT yammermouth uses bronze #9 which I have yet to locate.

I was taught to dress the tweezers so that one can pick up a human hair off a sheet of glass and flip it over.

Be prepared to shell out some funds for the tweezers. The watches will thank you.
 
JimInOz
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To give you an idea of the force required to used them. I selected my standard Dumont No4 Bronze, a set of Dumont Dumoxel No2 and a set of Vetus ST-14 Stainless tweezers to compare.

Not having a scientific force gauge, I used my jewelers scales and Australian coins to provide weight. The first coin was a $2 placed at the point where your fingers would normally press, the remainder of the coins were then stacked until the tips were just closed.

First test with my favourites.

Just closed.

Dumont Bronze Closed.webp


and only 30.55 grammes required.

Dumont Bronze No4.webp


Next the Dumont No2.

Dumont Dumoxel Closed.webp


they required 127+ grammes.

Dumont Dumoxel No2.webp


Lastly, the Vetus. I got sick of stacking coins so the force required is significantly more than desirable.

Vetus Closed.webp


even close to 180 grammes wasn't enough.

Vetus ST-14 Stainless.webp


Finally a shot of all three showing the tip distances. As you can see, the bronze Dumonts have perfectly adequate clearance for all of the screws and parts I come across, even bridges and plates.

All 3 tweezers.webp
 
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