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CaptainWinsor
·Who is authenticating the authenticators? eBay has become an idiotic bureaucracy of bean counters
eBay Authenticity Guarantee - Applicability to Vintage Watches?
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Dan S
·I think that @WatchVaultNYC was part of the voluntary eBay authentication program, and it would be interesting to hear his take on this. However, it seems that he is no longer active on OF?
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pdxleaf
··So on and so on and scoobie doobie dooEbay chat:
Bryan
17:54 PM
"It will be eligible for authenticity guarantee and our watch authenticator is an independent industry expert whose authentication capabilities have been vetted by eBay.
Bryan
17:55 PM
eBay's watch authenticator is a leading provider of watch repair services to watch manufactures, retail jewelers, and consumers throughout the globe, and operates one of America's most respected watch service centers."
That's all they would say.
Bryan
17:54 PM
"It will be eligible for authenticity guarantee and our watch authenticator is an independent industry expert whose authentication capabilities have been vetted by eBay.
Bryan
17:55 PM
eBay's watch authenticator is a leading provider of watch repair services to watch manufactures, retail jewelers, and consumers throughout the globe, and operates one of America's most respected watch service centers."
That's all they would say.
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Dan S
·The constant repetition of "eligible for authenticity guarantee" is obviously the doublespeak messaging that they have decided to use, trying to make it sound like they are providing a valuable service, instead of forcing something on sellers that they don't want.
Oh, thank you so much, I'm so grateful that my watch is eligible for your free authenticity guarantee. 🙄
Oh, thank you so much, I'm so grateful that my watch is eligible for your free authenticity guarantee. 🙄
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AAAKK
·Classic case of they don't know what they don't know
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gatorcpa
··ΩF InvestiGatorI’m watching John Oliver rant about conspiracy theories, so I’ll add my own...
This is being forced on eBay by some watch manufacturers under hazards of litigation in an attempt by them to disrupt the second-hand luxury watch market.
IMO, eBay would rather not have non-professional dealers sell high value watches on their site. My guess is that there is a much higher rate of disputed transactions for watches than other non-certified collectibles.
In other words, they want out and this is a good way to chase away dodgy sellers.
Not saying I agree with this, of course.
gatorcpa
This is being forced on eBay by some watch manufacturers under hazards of litigation in an attempt by them to disrupt the second-hand luxury watch market.
IMO, eBay would rather not have non-professional dealers sell high value watches on their site. My guess is that there is a much higher rate of disputed transactions for watches than other non-certified collectibles.
In other words, they want out and this is a good way to chase away dodgy sellers.
Not saying I agree with this, of course.
gatorcpa
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JwRosenthal
·I’m watching John Oliver rant about conspiracy theories, so I’ll add my own...
This is being forced on eBay by some watch manufacturers under hazards of litigation in an attempt by them to disrupt the second-hand luxury watch market.
IMO, eBay would rather not have non-professional dealers sell high value watches on their site. My guess is that there is a much higher rate of disputed transactions for watches than other non-certified collectibles.
In other words, they want out and this is a good way to chase away dodgy sellers.
Not saying I agree with this, of course.
gatorcpa
They need to step away from this- it will not end well for them.
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Dan S
·I’m watching John Oliver rant about conspiracy theories, so I’ll add my own...
This is being forced on eBay by some watch manufacturers under hazards of litigation in an attempt by them to disrupt the second-hand luxury watch market.
IMO, eBay would rather not have non-professional dealers sell high value watches on their site. My guess is that there is a much higher rate of disputed transactions for watches than other non-certified collectibles.
In other words, they want out and this is a good way to chase away dodgy sellers.
Not saying I agree with this, of course.
gatorcpa
Just a piece of information here, not necessarily related to your hypothesis.
A few months ago, eBay sent me a long survey to fill out about watch buying on the site, maybe all of you also got this survey. They were asking a lot of questions that compared buying watches on eBay to Crown and Caliber, TheRealReal, etc. 5-point Likert scale questions about the reasons I would or wouldn't buy on eBay versus those sites. It was pretty clear that they felt they were losing sales to these luxury consignment sites.
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Dan S
·I'm curious if this has already gone into effect. I am still only seeing the "Authenticity Guarantee" badge on a few items from the big sellers who participate in the voluntary program.
And the policy change seems to be really under the radar. If you try to google things having to do with eBay watch authentication, you find a lot of links to various press releases from 2018 when they launched the original program. In fact, this thread is the only place I have read anything about this new policy, and it's not easy to find info by searching. For example, they are very careful to avoid using the word "watch" prominently, instead just talking generically about the "authenticity guarantee" and "eligible items". You need to dig down farther even to realize that this is entirely about watches.
Edit: Well, I guess time will tell. I'm hoping that maybe they just posted this policy change in a discreet way almost as a feeler, to see what type of response they got. Maybe if tons of people complain and threaten to stop buying and selling watches on eBay, they will just remove the page. I couldn't find anything to indicate exactly when it will go into effect, which is a little strange.
And the policy change seems to be really under the radar. If you try to google things having to do with eBay watch authentication, you find a lot of links to various press releases from 2018 when they launched the original program. In fact, this thread is the only place I have read anything about this new policy, and it's not easy to find info by searching. For example, they are very careful to avoid using the word "watch" prominently, instead just talking generically about the "authenticity guarantee" and "eligible items". You need to dig down farther even to realize that this is entirely about watches.
Edit: Well, I guess time will tell. I'm hoping that maybe they just posted this policy change in a discreet way almost as a feeler, to see what type of response they got. Maybe if tons of people complain and threaten to stop buying and selling watches on eBay, they will just remove the page. I couldn't find anything to indicate exactly when it will go into effect, which is a little strange.
Edited:
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OmegaP99
·The more I look into this the worse it gets:
- Your Role as Buyer.
By purchasing an Eligible Item on the eBay platform, you acknowledge and agree to inspection of the Eligible Item by a third-party authenticator prior to your receipt of the Eligible Item. In addition, if a return is requested, you acknowledge and agree to inspection of the Eligible Item by a third-party authenticator prior to the returns processing or a refund is issued. More information on returns under the Authenticity Guarantee can be found here.
- Impact of Fraud Detection on Buyers and Sellers.
You acknowledge and agree that if the third party authenticator detects fraud or suspects that an item is counterfeit, the item will be confiscated and not recirculated in the marketplace - neither buyer or seller will receive the item; in addition, eBay will work with the proper authorities as needed.
This website may earn commission from Ebay sales.
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JwRosenthal
·The more I look into this the worse it gets:
- Your Role as Buyer.
By purchasing an Eligible Item on the eBay platform, you acknowledge and agree to inspection of the Eligible Item by a third-party authenticator prior to your receipt of the Eligible Item. In addition, if a return is requested, you acknowledge and agree to inspection of the Eligible Item by a third-party authenticator prior to the returns processing or a refund is issued. More information on returns under the Authenticity Guarantee can be found here.
- Impact of Fraud Detection on Buyers and Sellers.
You acknowledge and agree that if the third party authenticator detects fraud or suspects that an item is counterfeit, the item will be confiscated and not recirculated in the marketplace - neither buyer or seller will receive the item; in addition, eBay will work with the proper authorities as needed.
I’ll stay in the shallow end of the pool on eBay and buy big ticket items here.
This website may earn commission from Ebay sales.
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airansun
·The more I look into this the worse it gets:
- Your Role as Buyer.
By purchasing an Eligible Item on the eBay platform, you acknowledge and agree to inspection of the Eligible Item by a third-party authenticator prior to your receipt of the Eligible Item. In addition, if a return is requested, you acknowledge and agree to inspection of the Eligible Item by a third-party authenticator prior to the returns processing or a refund is issued. More information on returns under the Authenticity Guarantee can be found here.
- Impact of Fraud Detection on Buyers and Sellers.
You acknowledge and agree that if the third party authenticator detects fraud or suspects that an item is counterfeit, the item will be confiscated and not recirculated in the marketplace - neither buyer or seller will receive the item; in addition, eBay will work with the proper authorities as needed.
Well, it looks like I may have bought my last watch (https://omegaforums.net/threads/lov...-made-me-buy-this-1002-update-arrival.118004/) on eBay. 🤬
And that’s a shame. I’ve been on their platform for over twenty years now. Over that time, I’ve bought rare coins, vintage fountain pens, a few first editions, vintage watches and parts, a motorcycle and goodness knows what else. Yeah, eBay is a pain in the ass, but I have a ton of stuff that I’d never had gotten access to in the old days.
I found the correct alpha hands for one of my 105.002-62’s on eBay. Just the other day, I finally found a correct set of hands for my 1016 (to replace the too short service hands) on eBay. There are a few fountain pens I have found on eBay that I’d never seen in the flesh before — and that’s after 25+ years of looking.
So, the loss of eBay as a marketplace is a big one for me. They didn’t survey me, but the vast majority of my watch collection comes from eBay.
🙁
Edited:
This website may earn commission from Ebay sales.
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FreelanceWriter
·What a mess. There's no way their authenticators are going to be expert enough to recognize all of the head-spinning details about fonts and logos that determine originality and the authenticity of specific vintage models. They're probably going to do little more than "authenticate" that it's not a counterfeit, that it's the right model (according to images they find and movement serial numbers), and that the basic elements of the description (meaning those that require no real expertise about anything more than eBay policy to understand) are accurate.
I suspect that the semantic approach won't work. They're probably going to define "vintage" objectively, probably by year of manufacture; and they're probably not going to allow such a huge loophole with sellers simply avoiding specific terms or numeric dates to circumvent this nonsense. You're probably more likely to get around it by selling every watch on a generic bracelet and listing it as "modified" and selling the bracelet separately. Of course, if eBay decides to define "modified" as applying only to the watch itself, that won't work, either. If I were ever going to sell my Grail on eBay, I was planning on having the original day & date wheels re-installed instead of the Fortis wheels in it. Now, I'm thinking the smarter move would be to just include those wheels in the listing for a "modified" Grail.
The authenticator would be an agent (or employee) of eBay. It's probably a moot point for any watches under 5-figure value, because it's cost-prohibitive, but you'd have to sue eBay and you'd have to introduce and authenticate (and pay for) your own expert witness to contradict anything from their authenticator (in person).
The worst part is that it seems that eBay requires you to give them the right to clean the watch. If they ruin the value of the watch, you'd be doing all of the above to sue eBay and you might also have to produce the seller to testify about the condition before eBay ruined it. The seller has no incentive to participate because he's not responsible for anything eBay does to the watch. If you're "lucky," your expert witness could testify to that based on the listed photos and the condition on receipt.
In the short run, I think we'll see a lot of watches priced at $1,999.99, and a lot of vintage watches listed without the word "vintage" and (perhaps) with the year shown as "nineteen sixty four" instead of "1964," so as not to trigger the automatic authenticity check mark.
The authenticator is the hireling of the ebay platform - neither vendor nor purchaser are forming a contract with them. So, e.g. if an inauthentic watch is "authenticated" and traded in good faith on that understanding, who pays up when the piece is found out and loses its value?
The worst part is that it seems that eBay requires you to give them the right to clean the watch. If they ruin the value of the watch, you'd be doing all of the above to sue eBay and you might also have to produce the seller to testify about the condition before eBay ruined it. The seller has no incentive to participate because he's not responsible for anything eBay does to the watch. If you're "lucky," your expert witness could testify to that based on the listed photos and the condition on receipt.
Edited:
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noelekal
··Home For Wayward WatchesFeel good window dressing to attract noob buyers who don't know any better. Noobs for whom "buyer beware" is too difficult a concept to grasp.
I regret that this has been implimented. Ebay was a source for vintage watches out here where I live. Not any more if I don't have the freedom to opt out of their hokey "service".
I regret that this has been implimented. Ebay was a source for vintage watches out here where I live. Not any more if I don't have the freedom to opt out of their hokey "service".
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OmegaP99
·"if the third party authenticator detects fraud or suspects that an item is counterfeit, the item will be confiscated"
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CaptainWinsor
·Meanwhile, 1000s of obviously fraudulent items are listed every day with ease and eBay not caring as long as they get their cut
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glownyc
·How is this going to work when the seller uses the global shipping program? Is the watch going to go from seller to shipping depot to authentication to buyer?
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Dan S
·How is this going to work when the seller uses the global shipping program? Is the watch going to go from seller to shipping depot to authentication to buyer?
All we know is that the seller is responsible for shipping to the authenticator, and must pay for that. After that, the process is vague about how it will be shipped to the buyer. eBay seems to claim that it will be shipped to the buyer using 2-day shipping, but it doesn't distinguish domestic from international and it is silent about insurance, who pays for the shipping, etc.
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glownyc
·All we know is that the seller is responsible for shipping to the authenticator, and must pay for that. After that, the process is vague about how it will be shipped to the buyer. eBay seems to claim that it will be shipped to the buyer using 2-day shipping, but it doesn't distinguish domestic from international and it is silent about insurance, who pays for the shipping, etc.
