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Tjmmartin
路is that a fake?? 馃榾
Very nice!
Very nice!
DON bezels... the new bubble?
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mac_omega
路IMHO Tjmmartin tries to earn some more post counts to reach the 200 sooner by continuing this exhausted thread... 馃槣
I think all is said - where is the beaten horse icon - I can麓t find it any more?
I think all is said - where is the beaten horse icon - I can麓t find it any more?
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the future
路Being more of a seamaster 300 guy, I just marvel at the importance of the placement of this little dot!
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Spacefruit
路路Prolific Speedmaster HoarderIt's not about the dot.
The dot represents the rest of the bezel.
The DO90 has a specific font all over not just the dot.
A replica part will never satisfy me on a watch because as Mike says, the patina will not match.
Also once replicas are known to exist, we will discover "tells" .
While one might think it is no matter to replicate a bezel, I was surprised to discover how my Rolex dealer friends in HK can spot the fakes. Mind you, they don't have much else to do - and they spend their entire day happily peering at microscpic differences, because they sit in the centre of the land of fakes, and they need to know.
Seriously to make a replica, down to the fractions of a millimetre accuracy, is something that has eluded the counterfeiters in the Rolex buisiness.
So far....
The dot represents the rest of the bezel.
The DO90 has a specific font all over not just the dot.
A replica part will never satisfy me on a watch because as Mike says, the patina will not match.
Also once replicas are known to exist, we will discover "tells" .
While one might think it is no matter to replicate a bezel, I was surprised to discover how my Rolex dealer friends in HK can spot the fakes. Mind you, they don't have much else to do - and they spend their entire day happily peering at microscpic differences, because they sit in the centre of the land of fakes, and they need to know.
Seriously to make a replica, down to the fractions of a millimetre accuracy, is something that has eluded the counterfeiters in the Rolex buisiness.
So far....
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pitpro
路Patina, they(the fakers) know how to do, in spades.
Just look at all the Rolex Sub bezels that are Ghost, blue, gray,brown,etc.
More than half, I would say, have been chemically altered.
As someone who spent more than a few years on VRF collecting Rolex,
and owns a 6263 with the black Bakelite Tachy, I kinda know where this is
headed. And it's not just bezels of course. It will be dials, cases, paperwork,etc.
Here's a sample of the info a 6263 collector has to have on his hard drive.
You also need forum friends with experience for second and third sets of
eyes, because it gets very complicated. This is when the hobby also starts
to depend more on forum friendly dealers. This is all they do, and they
have very large amounts of money they invest in inventory or buying "Special"
watches, ie. 6538 Big Crown, Daytona's, etc. The smart ones are forum
friendly. This increases their respect amongst the community and naturally
draws customers to them. Anyway, it's coming, nail your shoes down.
The shape of the "S" in "UNITS" - can be sharply angular like a "Z" (older), or softly serpentine (newer)
- The alignment of the verticals in "N" and "I" of "Units Per" over the "H" of "Hour" - Oldest 1st gen has the "I" just a nudge past right vertical of "H"
- The shape of the "4" in "140" - with the older being the one with the more flat-topped trapezoidal shape; more acute top angle in newer
- The shape of the "2" in "120" - whether the descending slope intersects the horizontal foot, or drops into it at via a vertical that joins at a 90-degree angle (older)
- Differences about how the dot over "100" relates to the last "0" and how close to the inner edge of the bezel
- Between the 1st and 4th generation the zeroes became rounder, as if more inflated
Just look at all the Rolex Sub bezels that are Ghost, blue, gray,brown,etc.
More than half, I would say, have been chemically altered.
As someone who spent more than a few years on VRF collecting Rolex,
and owns a 6263 with the black Bakelite Tachy, I kinda know where this is
headed. And it's not just bezels of course. It will be dials, cases, paperwork,etc.
Here's a sample of the info a 6263 collector has to have on his hard drive.
You also need forum friends with experience for second and third sets of
eyes, because it gets very complicated. This is when the hobby also starts
to depend more on forum friendly dealers. This is all they do, and they
have very large amounts of money they invest in inventory or buying "Special"
watches, ie. 6538 Big Crown, Daytona's, etc. The smart ones are forum
friendly. This increases their respect amongst the community and naturally
draws customers to them. Anyway, it's coming, nail your shoes down.
The shape of the "S" in "UNITS" - can be sharply angular like a "Z" (older), or softly serpentine (newer)
- The alignment of the verticals in "N" and "I" of "Units Per" over the "H" of "Hour" - Oldest 1st gen has the "I" just a nudge past right vertical of "H"
- The shape of the "4" in "140" - with the older being the one with the more flat-topped trapezoidal shape; more acute top angle in newer
- The shape of the "2" in "120" - whether the descending slope intersects the horizontal foot, or drops into it at via a vertical that joins at a 90-degree angle (older)
- Differences about how the dot over "100" relates to the last "0" and how close to the inner edge of the bezel
- Between the 1st and 4th generation the zeroes became rounder, as if more inflated
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Tjmmartin
路It seems as a consequence of me kicking a dead horse there have been 2 excellent posts.....I can live with that.
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Redwheelbarrow
路Good thing I've been stripping DON since last year 馃榾
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gemini4
路路Hoarder Of Speed et aliaDoes "stripping DON" mean taking the bezel off of an older Speedmaster? 馃
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Redwheelbarrow
路That's unfortunate.
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gemini4
路路Hoarder Of Speed et aliaTo strip the bezels for sale would be unfortunate. To remove them from a 145.022-69 and transfer them to your, 2998-4, assuming the 2998-4 lacks them, IMHO is not wrong.
Firstly, the older watch no doubt lost the original bezel during an Omega Service back when vintage didn't exist. Today, every owner wishes they still had their original watch parts. Omega did not return them.
The 145.022-69 is a transitional reference which had DON bezels and later versions as well. This reference is correct with either bezel.
I believe there are prior posts on this subject and the general consensus is that switching a bezel to restore your older, more valuable watch, is OK.
Firstly, the older watch no doubt lost the original bezel during an Omega Service back when vintage didn't exist. Today, every owner wishes they still had their original watch parts. Omega did not return them.
The 145.022-69 is a transitional reference which had DON bezels and later versions as well. This reference is correct with either bezel.
I believe there are prior posts on this subject and the general consensus is that switching a bezel to restore your older, more valuable watch, is OK.
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flyingout
路I believe there are prior posts on this subject and the general consensus is that switching a bezel to restore your older, more valuable watch, is OK.
Cheers
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lwong
路Realistically, if excellent (counterfeit) copies of DON bezels exist, they're probably in circulation and may have been for some time already, in which case buying the seller becomes even more important. The prevalence of replica inserts for Heuer autavias has made me extremely cagey about committing to any autavias placed on the bay, even if well-priced. I'd rather buy from a known collector who's selling, and pay a (hopefully slight) premium.
I really would not want to see any promotion or links to sale of the replica DONs. It might be intentional ignorance of the elephant in the room, but I do feel it detracts from the integrity of this forum to put up a sign in that direction. I think it also creates an additional hurdle for folks who are new to vintage Omega to get started.
I really would not want to see any promotion or links to sale of the replica DONs. It might be intentional ignorance of the elephant in the room, but I do feel it detracts from the integrity of this forum to put up a sign in that direction. I think it also creates an additional hurdle for folks who are new to vintage Omega to get started.
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gemini4
路路Hoarder Of Speed et aliaI'll have to look up those old threads. While I don't disagree, I would point out that in my short time here I have noticed the (relatively minor) critiques that parts don't quite look the same age so could have been replaced. So must the hypothetical -69 bezel on the -4 be disclosed? Or is close enough OK if an authentic part? Surely calling the watch "all original" would not be accurate.
Cheers
I have purchased watches from many different sources and I can say, without any reservation, that the disclosure regarding watches for sale on this forum is second to none. If anything, especially from some of the private sellers, you sometimes get too much watch history.
Edited:
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Redwheelbarrow
路You can have your opinion, but I couldn't disagree more. Stripping an original vintage watch for its parts is unfortunate.
Making light of it by justification only draws further into question the originality of watches belonging to those who indulge in the practice.
Making light of it by justification only draws further into question the originality of watches belonging to those who indulge in the practice.
To strip the bezels for sale would be unfortunate. To remove them from a 145.022-69 and transfer them to your, 2998-4, assuming the 2998-4 lacks them, IMHO is not wrong.
Firstly, the older watch no doubt lost the original bezel during an Omega Service back when vintage didn't exist. Today, every owner wishes they still had their original watch parts. Omega did not return them.
The 145.022-69 is a transitional reference which had DON bezels and later versions as well. This reference is correct with either bezel.
I believe there are prior posts on this subject and the general consensus is that switching a bezel to restore your older, more valuable watch, is OK.
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gemini4
路路Hoarder Of Speed et aliaHere is a recent link on the pros and cons of bezel swapping
change-or-not-to-change-speedy-bezel.20738/
Hope the link works I'm not very adept at copying them
change-or-not-to-change-speedy-bezel.20738/
Hope the link works I'm not very adept at copying them
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Kringkily
路路Omega Collector / HunterIm not really stripping to sell the part but to restore older generations whom the bezels are of the modern replacement so just making things right. Knowing the importance of having the vintage font on a watch of that era.
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Tjmmartin
路The horse lives!
If the argument that replaced original dials should be disclosed then that strengthens the argument that aftermarket marked dials may be acceptable.
I already have posting rights so am not chasing 200 posts.
I do not intend to add further posts and will leave it to others, unless prompted.
Because of constructive comments by others on this thread I will be saving up money to buy an original DON.
The question regarding validity of aftermarket branded bezels remains.
Must go....got to go and pleasure myself.
If the argument that replaced original dials should be disclosed then that strengthens the argument that aftermarket marked dials may be acceptable.
I already have posting rights so am not chasing 200 posts.
I do not intend to add further posts and will leave it to others, unless prompted.
Because of constructive comments by others on this thread I will be saving up money to buy an original DON.
The question regarding validity of aftermarket branded bezels remains.
Must go....got to go and pleasure myself.
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Emeister
路Could someone please post a link/links to the actual auction(s) being discussed by the OP or let me know the seller.
I'm getting nothing when I click through the link or do any completed listing searches.
Thanks. 馃憤
I'm getting nothing when I click through the link or do any completed listing searches.
Thanks. 馃憤
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flyingout
路http://www.ebay.com/itm/381203471906?item=381203471906&rmvSB=true
There were a half dozen or so, some with cases. I think the above was the first but they all had similar results.
The Base 1000 with case did considerably better:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-Omega-...-GUARD-Case-Top-2998-or-105-003-/351350914432
And some 321 movements went for between $1400 and $3100, the last with case and bezel.
There were a half dozen or so, some with cases. I think the above was the first but they all had similar results.
The Base 1000 with case did considerably better:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-Omega-...-GUARD-Case-Top-2998-or-105-003-/351350914432
And some 321 movements went for between $1400 and $3100, the last with case and bezel.
This website may earn commission from Ebay sales.
