Did I buy a fake Constellation Pie Pan?

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komakino

·Apr 25, 2019

Won an auction online the other day for an "Omega Constellation Pi-Pan, waffle dial, Steel, Ref 2852 1SC, Caliber 501, 1956".

Received the watch today and I am a bit concerned that it might be fake. The condition is practically new, even though it should be over 60 years old. After some googling I understand that there are a lot of really well done fakes out there. I have tried to follow guides to authenticate it, but I'm still not sure.

I paid about $1k.

What's the verdict? Thanks.

 

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Shabbaz

·Apr 25, 2019

It's a repainted dial

 

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Shabbaz

·Apr 25, 2019

I cant read the caliber number but should be a 505 i think

 

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Shabbaz

·Apr 25, 2019

Sorry

 

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X350 XJR

·Apr 25, 2019·Vintage Omega Aficionado

Yes, it's genuine, unfortunately it's in really poor condition with a refinished dial. It appears to you to be "practically new", but this is because you don't know what a correct one should look like.

Sorry, it's a mess.

 

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Shabbaz

·Apr 25, 2019

Caliber 501 is a non chronometer movement. Although i can not read the movement (i'm on my phone) i can see 19 jewels on the rotor. But a 505 has 24 jewels i think. So it could be a franken too.

 

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Shabbaz

·Apr 25, 2019

Whoops. Maybe i'm wromg about the 501. Let me check

 

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Shabbaz

·Apr 25, 2019

Movements
Type

Automatic chronometer certified

Caliber Number

501 / 505

Other

Cal. 501
Created in 1955 with 19 jewels
Created in 1957 with 20 jewels
Cal. 505
Created in 1957, 24 jewels
Central sweep-second hand

 

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STANDY

·Apr 25, 2019·schizophrenic pizza orderer and watch collector

You ask here, then buy. It’s a lot cheaper that way 👍

Redialled, movement missing a screw

The one that goes here

 

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Shabbaz

·Apr 25, 2019

I did a quick search and it looks like the early 2852's came with the cal 501.

 

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Peemacgee

·Apr 25, 2019

Shabbaz

Caliber 501 is a non chronometer movement. Although i can not read the movement (i'm on my phone) i can see 19 jewels on the rotor.

Omega did produce a chronometer rated 501 with 19 jewels but only for one year.

Desmond advises caution as non chronometer movements have been ‘enhanced’ by swapping out the rotor for a chronometer version.
The colour differences on this movement would certainly make me question its originality.
Perversely, the ‘19 jewel adjusted 5 positions’ rotor may be the most valuable part of this watch to a collector as they are as rare as hens teeth.

@komakino
If the seller described the watch dial as original, I would return it if you can.

 

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komakino

·Apr 25, 2019

As i i suspected, then. Crap.

Guess I will try to return it then. Could you guys help me with some arguments to the seller?

Here is his listing description(translated from Swedish):

Omega Constellation Pi-Pan

With the rare waffle pie-pan dial in perfect condition.

The glass is Omega original without any scratches.

OMEGA Automatic Constellation Chronometer Pie-Pan , modell De Luxe,

Manufacturing year: ca 1956 (Sn 148****** )
Steel

Ref 2852 1SC

Caliber 501, Automatic

The watch is in very good condition and works very well.

It is hard to find a Constellation Pie-Pan in better condition.

Thanks, guys!

 

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Shabbaz

·Apr 25, 2019

The most important thing of a watch - the dial - is not original... Seller did not mention this. Did you pay PayPal? Was it a ebay auction?

 

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komakino

·Apr 25, 2019

Payed with a local swedish method and the auction was on a swedish subsidiary of eBay called Tradera. But the buy/sell rules are usually very good and they help out if there is a dispute.

 

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Shabbaz

·Apr 25, 2019

It depends on the conditions of the auction house and european law. For example, catawiki has a 14 days return period for professionel sellers based on european law. I'm not sure if this applies in your case but maybe you can use it. Good luck! Here's the (translated) text of catawiki:

Consumers living in a country within the European Economic Area
Buying a Lot from a Professional Seller are entitled to purchase for a period of 14
days (the 'cooling-off period') without giving reasons to abandon the purchase, based on
the legal right of withdrawal as referred to in Article 6: 230o BW or on the basis of any
applicable foreign law implementing Article 9 of Directive 2011/83 / EU. The
Professional Seller can ask the buyer for the reason (s) of the cancellation, but the
the buyer is not obliged to comply with this.

 

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Peemacgee

·Apr 25, 2019

K komakino

Guess I will try to return it then. Could you guys help me with some arguments to the seller?

1. The dial has been poorly and inaccurately repainted - it is therefore not in perfect condition.
2. The watch is not the de luxe variant which would have a solid gold case and gold dial.
3. The watch is not in very good condition as it has been heavily polished.

Three reasons to return the watch but you really only need to use No1.

Hope that helps.

 

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new_heuer

·Apr 25, 2019

4. It’s easy to find a Constellation pie pan in better condition

 

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JimInOz

·Apr 25, 2019·Melbourne Australia

STANDY

You ask here, then buy. It’s a lot cheaper that way 👍

Redialled, movement missing a screw

The one that goes here

Not missing Andy, it's just the head broken off and the shank is still in the spring boss.