Decent tools for bracelet anyone?

Modernism · Jan 5, 2021

I've adjusted bracelets a dozen times on Omega pin and collars, and Omega screws bracelets which are pretty easy, and it's never given me any trouble.

The pin and collar on other brands are sometimes a bit of a nightmare, For some reason the last knock kicked the pin out of the link when it was in one of those plastic bracelet holders and came out of the collar part instead of going into the link end, but because I tried to get that pin back in, it bent the pin removers, and the tools aren't in great shape. I've rectified this now, but other than the rubbish on Amazon, what do people use that's not plastic and crappy when it comes to pin removal, and also what alternative to those plastic bracelet holders. I only ever see those square plastic things. Hammer is probably pretty standard I'm guessing.

SkunkPrince · Jan 5, 2021

I've had good luck buying Horotec brand. I also have a Bulova pin "pliers" for lack of a better word that doesn't do too badly.

You get what you pay for with these things.

Modernism · Jan 5, 2021

Thanks, yes agreed. I've always wondered what alternative to those plastic square holders, There must be a plusher alternative, but only ever see tat. I'm obviously looking in the wrong places. Decent pliers to grab end of pin I could do with yes, I think those plastic/metal hammers are much of a much, and I'm OK for I think, but the pin pushers and the block deffo needs upping

SkunkPrince · Jan 5, 2021

Modernism
Thanks, yes agreed. I've always wondered what alternative to those plastic square holders, There must be a plusher alternative, but only ever see tat. I'm obviously looking in the wrong places. Decent pliers to grab end of pin I could do with yes, I think those plastic/metal hammers are much of a much, and I'm OK for I think, but the pin pushers and the block deffo needs upping

The plastic blocks, as long as they have the variety of slots, are what you need. That said... nothing wrong with screwing it down to a heavy chunk of wood, and I recommend it.

Decent pliers? Wiha or Milwaukee Tool.

The hammer is actually significant. I have one, brass on one side, nylon on the other. Good quality, and by that I mean $30 instead of $3.

The Horotec pin punch set should be what you immediately need.

I am not a watchmaker but i have been advised by one.

Alfista88 · Jan 5, 2021

On older pin & collar Omega bracelets, I've had success with a FB 506. Otto Frei has them on sale. http://www.ofrei.com/page237.html

I'm often a few blocks away from OFrei's warehouse store, and would happily pick up in person and ship to you to save a little on their expensive shipping rates. But they're closed for will-call pickups right now due to COVID, and are only open for online orders.

i sold the 2254 Seamaster that I used to use this tool on, so it's been years since I last used it. But from what I remember, the needle has sufficient length to push the pin past both collars for an easy exit. Removing pins was a cakewalk with that tool. Installing them back into place was the the more difficult part.

Modernism · Jan 6, 2021

SkunkPrince
The plastic blocks, as long as they have the variety of slots, are what you need. That said... nothing wrong with screwing it down to a heavy chunk of wood, and I recommend it.

Decent pliers? Wiha or Milwaukee Tool.

The hammer is actually significant. I have one, brass on one side, nylon on the other. Good quality, and by that I mean $30 instead of $3.

The Horotec pin punch set should be what you immediately need.

I am not a watchmaker but i have been advised by one.

Thanks for this, it's a big help. Apart from the Bergeon 6767 and the quite expensive german name screwdrivers who's name eludes me at present, which are great for the Omega screw bracelets, (I'll check shortly) all my other 'tools' are a bit on the rubbish side. You feel once you've sized the watch, that's your lot, but so often isn't the case these days. Strap changing and removing bracelet are a breeze on Omega, which is a fairly regular job, But I've definitely lost a piece of Bergeon 6767F metal in the past on stubborn ones.

Alfista88
On older pin & collar Omega bracelets, I've had success with a FB 506. Otto Frei has them on sale. http://www.ofrei.com/page237.html

I'm often a few blocks away from OFrei's warehouse store, and would happily pick up in person and ship to you to save a little on their expensive shipping rates. But they're closed for will-call pickups right now due to COVID, and are only open for online orders.

i sold the 2254 Seamaster that I used to use this tool on, so it's been years since I last used it. But from what I remember, the needle has sufficient length to push the pin past both collars for an easy exit. Removing pins was a cakewalk with that tool. Installing them back into place was the the more difficult part.

Thank you for your very kind and generous offer, but shipping to London these days would be a huge pain for you. I'll certainly get some stuff online with your suggestions. Needles that push far enough out that you don't have to grab more than half the pin with pliers sounds like a very sensible plan.

Archer · Jan 6, 2021

The tools I use are very simple...

Small watchmakers hammer, pair of pliers, and a holder for various size drive pins, plus those pins. And then something to hold the bracelet:

This is a clamping style holder made by Citizen. I don't use any threaded device to drive these pins out, as I have more control using the punch and hammer type system.

The drive pins are Bergeon 6745 - link here just for reference:

Replacement Pins for the Bergeon 6745-100 Watch Band Sizing Tool Broaches (esslinger.com)

This is the handle:

Replacement Pin Blade Holder for the Bergeon 6745-100 Watch Band Tool (esslinger.com)

I don't like the slotted plastic blocks, as I prefer something that clamps the bracelet firmly. When the bracelet is very worn in particular, the holes between all the various parts of the links don't always line up well, so having something that clamps it all in position is better for driving the new pins in. Here is a similar version to the one I have, but from Horotec:

Horotec Watch Band Holding Vise - Watch Band Tools | Esslinger Watchmakers Tool

Note that I have no affiliation with the seller, they were just the first result that came up when I searched. Of course there are various qualities in these tools, and I use these all the time so have bought brand names, but these aren't critical tools like tweezers or screwdrivers, so likely some cheaper versions would work fine for the person just doing their own watches.

Cheers, Al

SkunkPrince · Jan 6, 2021

To further Al's point of using a vise, I have also used a small bench vise with rubber jaws to hold bracelets.

Dan S · Jan 6, 2021

Archer
The tools I use are very simple...

How about for disassembling links like these. It's tricky because the pin isn't removable, it is captive in one side of the link. When you punch out the pin from one side of the link, the entire opposite side of the link needs to be able to separate. I have done it successfully by holding just one side (the non-captive half) in a vise, and punching out the other side, but it's hard to get a good grip on just the one side without damaging it. Do you know a better way?

I'm not needing to do this at the moment, but the thread just made me remember how difficult this was.

Archer · Jan 6, 2021

Dan S
How about for disassembling links like these. It's tricky because the pin isn't removable, it is captive in one side of the link. When you punch out the pin from one side of the link, the entire opposite side of the link needs to be able to separate. I have done it successfully by holding just one side (the non-captive half) in a vise, and punching out the other side, but it's hard to get a good grip on just the one side without damaging it. Do you know a better way?

I'm not needing to do this at the moment, but the thread just made me remember how difficult this was.

This appears to be a non-removable link...I don't take these apart...

Dan S · Jan 6, 2021

Archer
This appears to be a non-removable link...I don't take these apart...

It's a removable link from a 1980s DOXA bracelet. That bracelet had a handful links like those, and the rest were non-removable. Side-view here.

Archer · Jan 6, 2021

Dan S
It's a removable link from a 1980s DOXA bracelet. That bracelet had a handful links like those, and the rest were non-removable. Side-view here.

I've never seen a removable link that appears to be pressed together, using a splined pin, in the same way non-removable links are done. They are the most non-removable removable links I think I've ever seen.

So I guess the answer to your question is, no, I don't have a better way.

Dan S · Jan 6, 2021

Archer
They are the most non-removable removable links I think I've ever seen.

Yeah, it wasn't easy. The problem was that the upper part of the link was only held in the vise by friction on a pretty small surface area, and wanted to slide down in the vise as I tapped it. I didn't want to really crank down on the force for fear of damaging the finish. And gentle tapping wasn't sufficient. Sandwiching the link in the vise with thin scrap leather worked ok, but I never felt very confident about doing it.

wsfarrell · Jan 6, 2021

Archer
The tools I use are very simple...

Small watchmakers hammer, pair of pliers, and a holder for various size drive pins, plus those pins. And then something to hold the bracelet:

This is a clamping style holder made by Citizen. I don't use any threaded device to drive these pins out, as I have more control using the punch and hammer type system.

The drive pins are Bergeon 6745 - link here just for reference:

Replacement Pins for the Bergeon 6745-100 Watch Band Sizing Tool Broaches (esslinger.com)

This is the handle:

Replacement Pin Blade Holder for the Bergeon 6745-100 Watch Band Tool (esslinger.com)

I don't like the slotted plastic blocks, as I prefer something that clamps the bracelet firmly. When the bracelet is very worn in particular, the holes between all the various parts of the links don't always line up well, so having something that clamps it all in position is better for driving the new pins in. Here is a similar version to the one I have, but from Horotec:

Horotec Watch Band Holding Vise - Watch Band Tools | Esslinger Watchmakers Tool

Note that I have no affiliation with the seller, they were just the first result that came up when I searched. Of course there are various qualities in these tools, and I use these all the time so have bought brand names, but these aren't critical tools like tweezers or screwdrivers, so likely some cheaper versions would work fine for the person just doing their own watches.

Cheers, Al

Cool tools, thanks for sharing.

Modernism · Jan 6, 2021

Archer
The tools I use are very simple...

Small watchmakers hammer, pair of pliers, and a holder for various size drive pins, plus those pins. And then something to hold the bracelet:

This is a clamping style holder made by Citizen. I don't use any threaded device to drive these pins out, as I have more control using the punch and hammer type system.

The drive pins are Bergeon 6745 - link here just for reference:

Replacement Pins for the Bergeon 6745-100 Watch Band Sizing Tool Broaches (esslinger.com)

This is the handle:

Replacement Pin Blade Holder for the Bergeon 6745-100 Watch Band Tool (esslinger.com)

I don't like the slotted plastic blocks, as I prefer something that clamps the bracelet firmly. When the bracelet is very worn in particular, the holes between all the various parts of the links don't always line up well, so having something that clamps it all in position is better for driving the new pins in. Here is a similar version to the one I have, but from Horotec:

Horotec Watch Band Holding Vise - Watch Band Tools | Esslinger Watchmakers Tool

Note that I have no affiliation with the seller, they were just the first result that came up when I searched. Of course there are various qualities in these tools, and I use these all the time so have bought brand names, but these aren't critical tools like tweezers or screwdrivers, so likely some cheaper versions would work fine for the person just doing their own watches.

Cheers, Al

Thanks so much for that. Very much appreciated.

Holding Vice!!!!! Thank you. The clamp you use would presumably negate this problem. The only way of overcoming that for me was holding them together with one hand before the hammer blow. It wasn’t isolated, it did it with every one that went back in, and this was just pushing the pins back ‘in’. Removing them was fine. I've never come across this problem before with any Omega or any other bracelet come to think of it. I’ve always done it this way but for some reason, when you think it's all lined up and push pin as far as you can manually, It goes in the block for the last hammer knock, and this happened.

The bent pins on the tools you can see to the left, were just me trying to move the dislodged pin. Needless to say, that did nothing but bend pins. I prefer the hammer method, and that awful wheel contraption which is never the right height for any watch, was only being used to try and move the misaligned.

blueteg · Jan 7, 2021

Archer
The tools I use are very simple...

Small watchmakers hammer, pair of pliers, and a holder for various size drive pins, plus those pins. And then something to hold the bracelet:

This is a clamping style holder made by Citizen. I don't use any threaded device to drive these pins out, as I have more control using the punch and hammer type system.
# # # # #
I don't like the slotted plastic blocks, as I prefer something that clamps the bracelet firmly. When the bracelet is very worn in particular, the holes between all the various parts of the links don't always line up well, so having something that clamps it all in position is better for driving the new pins in. Here is a similar version to the one I have, but from Horotec:

Horotec Watch Band Holding Vise - Watch Band Tools | Esslinger Watchmakers Tool

@Archer - thank you for posting your recommendations. I've got a 1125 bracelet on the way for a vintage Seamster and I wanted something a bit more professional to size the bracelet than what I have been using in the past.
I checked out the link you posted and that holder says it's made of 'high impact material' so I assume it's some kind of polymer?
I also did some searching on the Citizen vise that you pictured and found some Citizen vises that look similar, but not exactly like the one you pictures. They are fairly available to the Japanese market, but not so much here in the USA. The pictures of the Citizen vises that I saw looked to have a different material on the inside of the jaws, presumably to keep from marring the surface of the bracelet? Can you share if your vise has the same type of feature and if there is a part number anywhere on it that might be more readily available to the N. American market?

thanks!

Archer · Jan 7, 2021

blueteg
@Archer - thank you for posting your recommendations. I've got a 1125 bracelet on the way for a vintage Seamster and I wanted something a bit more professional to size the bracelet than what I have been using in the past.
I checked out the link you posted and that holder says it's made of 'high impact material' so I assume it's some kind of polymer?
I also did some searching on the Citizen vise that you pictured and found some Citizen vises that look similar, but not exactly like the one you pictures. They are fairly available to the Japanese market, but not so much here in the USA. The pictures of the Citizen vises that I saw looked to have a different material on the inside of the jaws, presumably to keep from marring the surface of the bracelet? Can you share if your vise has the same type of feature and if there is a part number anywhere on it that might be more readily available to the N. American market?

thanks!

There's no part number on the Citizen one I have - I'll be honest I can't even remember where I bought it, as it was a long time ago.

The vise is made of a plastic material that isn't really soft at all, so it's quite hard, sturdy, and it's heavier than you would think just looking at it. I've not found that it creates any marks, so that's not a problem from that standpoint. Now separate jaws on this - it's all the same material except for the steel parts for the screw for example.

blueteg · Jan 7, 2021

Archer
The vise is made of a plastic material that isn't really soft at all, so it's quite hard, sturdy, and it's heavier than you would think just looking at it. I've not found that it creates any marks, so that's not a problem from that standpoint.

Good to know. So I'm clear, it sounds like in addition to your Citizen vise, you've also used the Horotec vise, and that's what you're referencing in the above response?

Archer · Jan 7, 2021

blueteg
Good to know. So I'm clear, it sounds like in addition to your Citizen vise, you've also used the Horotec vise, and that's what you're referencing in the above response?

I don't have the Horotec - I'm talking about my Citizen vise...

Decent tools for bracelet anyone?

Modernism

SkunkPrince

Modernism

SkunkPrince

Alfista88

Modernism

Archer

SkunkPrince

Dan S

Archer

Dan S

Archer

Dan S

wsfarrell

Modernism

blueteg

Archer

blueteg

Archer

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